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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel discriminated against because I cannot enter into a Civil Partnership because we are not Gay.

323 replies

happyclapper · 12/07/2012 17:37

Having been married twice before and feeling it is, for me, a meaningless institution, I would like some legal form of commitment to my partner of 13yrs.
We have 2DS and I now only work part-time in order to facilitate my partners career and a stable home.
Consequently I have no pension and would be left fairly high and dry should anything happen to my partner.
This could be covered by a Will I quess but that would not help me if we simply decided to split.
I had a good job, pension scheme etc but have no chance now of returning after a 8yr abscence.
I think a civil arrangement would be perfect and can't understand why only same sex couples can enter into it.

OP posts:
lotsofcheese · 12/07/2012 18:36

I'd like there to be some kind of alternative to marriage, which doesn't involve any type of ceremony or vows. I cannot bring myself to say vows etc out loud - I have no religious beliefs & don't want any sort of public ceremony, even with random witnesses off the street.

If I could go to a lawyer/official & sign some paperwork to offer legal protection that would be my absolute ideal. I wish we had this system as I would do it without hesitation.

daisiessunflowersandtulips · 12/07/2012 18:36

And a full range of legal choices which don't meet your precise personal specifications is not discrimination. Not being able to access the social institutions at all which provide legal protection is discrimination. I hate it when that word is banded about because overruse tends to undermine impact and in a society where discrimination is real for so many people on so many levels that's not fair.

Rockpool · 12/07/2012 18:36

It is woo if you don't want to be a lawfully wedded wife.

Dprince · 12/07/2012 18:37

I have been to 3 civil partnerships, all included hand holding and gazing. More so than the approx 200 hundred civil ceremonies that I attended when I was a wedding coordinator.
Trust me either can be made as loved up or not as desired.
Yabvu.

loopydoo · 12/07/2012 18:37

I don't see why you couldn't just ask the registrar to alter the wording from gushy to non-gushy.

I'm still in a quandery (sp?) over why churches can't hire out the buildings for civil marriages as originally, churches were used for weddings simply because they were places for all the villagers to gather.

Or b) why we need any marriage to be religious at all? If you think about it, a civil married person is 'as' married on their certificate as a religiously married person. Rant over.... Grin

Oh and a marriage is a partnership - it's just called marriage.

GnomeDePlume · 12/07/2012 18:37

The civil vows are as follows:

Declaratory Words

"I declare that I know of no legal reason why I (your full name) may not be joined in marriage to (your partners full name)"

or by replying "I am" to the question "Are you (your full name) free lawfully to marry (your partners full name)?"

Contracting words

"I (your full name) take you (your partners full name) to be my wedded husband/wife"

Apart from that all you have to do is sign the register as do your witnesses.

You could stretch the whole thing out to 15 minutes if you spoke incredibly slowly.

I would expect that all you would have to do is speak to the registrar and tell them that you want to do the ceremony as plainly as possible and I guess they would go along with it.

You never know, you might even be able to ditch the husband/wife words or alternatively you can just say them in the ceremony then promise each other never to say them again (if it really worries you that much).

EdgarAllenPimms · 12/07/2012 18:37

are you looking to get a knighthood op?

daisiessunflowersandtulips · 12/07/2012 18:37

Paniking they are all but identical in law. Civil partnerships require equally lengthy dissolutions

Original poster
happyclapper · 12/07/2012 18:38

My 'beef' is that its not appropriate to the situation., eg asking if there are any objections to the marraiage. Urm excuse me...wtf has my security got to do with any Tom, Dick or Harry?
Give me a serious , sensible legal document and don't call me anyones wife.

OP posts:
Dprince · 12/07/2012 18:39

Gnome is correct, most of the vows etc can be legally removed.
Problem solved.

daisiessunflowersandtulips · 12/07/2012 18:39

Rockpool so don't call it that then. Ask the register if you can say your own vows and call each other lawfully partnered whatevers if ever asked.

Rockpool · 12/07/2012 18:40

Lots that is what I'd like.I think when you register dc births or buy a house there should be a standard extra form you could both just sign alongside the rest of the paperwork.

JamieandTheOlympicTorch · 12/07/2012 18:40

Rockpool - the words above are the minimum that are legally required. OP needs to have no more than that, if she so desires. These are the alternative words:

Alternative Declaratory Words
I declare that I know of no legal reason
why I, [your full name], may not be joined
in marriage to [your partner's full name].
or
by replying 'I am' to the question
'Are you, [your full name], free lawfully
to marry [your partner's full name]'.

Alternative Contracting Words
I, [your full name], take you, [your partner's full name],
to be my wedded wife [or husband].
or
I, [your full name], take thee, [your partner's full name],
to be my wedded wife [or husband].

Also not very emotional
Link Vows

JuliaScurr · 12/07/2012 18:41

equallove.org.uk/

more to it than many think, it seems

Rockpool · 12/07/2012 18:43

I don't want to be joined in marriage or a wedded wife or take part in any ceremony, anyhow the sites I looked on inferred promises were mandatory(not sure you can ditch everything you choose).

I just want to fill out a form,preferably without even having to pay extra solicitor fees.

GnomeDePlume · 12/07/2012 18:44

Cross posted with Jamie

I got married using the economy version of the words - no permissions, no promises, no giving away.

Plain and simple.

BertieBotts · 12/07/2012 18:45

I don't understand, you say you don't want to be married, but you want a civil partnership.

Surely that is being married? It's like saying "Oh, I don't want to be vegetarian, I just don't want to eat meat." - well, yes you are vegetarian because not eating meat is what being vegetarian is.

Unless I'm missing something huge? (I've never been married so it's possible.)

Dprince · 12/07/2012 18:45

They ask about objections to the marriage I case someone knows you are not legally entitled to get married, perhaps a gust would know you are already married for example.

Rockpool · 12/07/2012 18:47

Julia that Valentine's wish summed it up nicely.Peter Tatchell seems to agree with the op and can see reason.Shame others can't.

BertieBotts · 12/07/2012 18:48

Ahh, sorry, I forgot to refresh before posting and xposted with loads of people Blush

DontmindifIdo · 12/07/2012 18:48

well heres the thing, you actually only legally need to answer 2 questions (confirm your name and that you freely agree to marry this person) and then sign the register in front of a couple of witnesses, who could be complete strangers. You can insist on everything else being taken out of the marriage ceremony.

While civil partnerships techincally can also just be two quick questions and then sign the documents, in practice they normally are just like civil weddings. Most gay couples refer to their spouse as either their husband or wife. A marriage is a sensible legal document. It's a contract, albeit normally a romantic one. (Because it is rather romantic to promise to spend the rest of your life with someone)

The 'objections' is a legal requirement, people aren't asked if they dont want you to get married, but if there is a legal reason, for example, you are married to someone else. Or in the past when an engagement was a legal agreement, if you were engaged to someone else and hadn't formally ended it...

GnomeDePlume · 12/07/2012 18:49

CP or CM is a very formal, binding arrangement. It doesnt need ceremony but it does need formallity. It isnt like filling out a tax return as you are binding the future not reporting on the past.

The formality confirms that you are free to make the commitment. The notice period gives time to think about the commitment or for others to say you are already committed elsewhere.

It would be foolhardy to allow such a binding agreement to be made on the basis of forms purchased from Smiths.

emmieging · 12/07/2012 18:49

I totally UNDERSTAND the point the op is making- ie straight and gay couples should both have the same rights and choices open to them. But I still think she is attaching a lot of issues which are nothing to do with marriage/ cp per se. Eg: Not having a pension leaves her vulnerable whether shes married or not. My point was that many women would not put themselves in such a vulnerable position whether they held the ops views on marriage or not. It just feels like the op has a real axe to grind over this particular issue and is dragging in anything she can think of to try to justify it. It doesn't need justification- in an ideal world marriage or cp would be options for all. Pensions and work arrangements are hashed out between the couple and it's foolish for any partner , whichever gender , to leave themself vulnerable

Dprince · 12/07/2012 18:49

I organised a wedding (not really a wedding no party etc, they just wanted it where I worked due to the history of the couple) they declared they were legally allowed to marry and that they were happy to be married to the other person.
Tbh I don't think they used the term husband and wife, although it was a while ago so I may be incorrect.
Why not go to the registras office and ask how much you can strip out?

lotsofcheese · 12/07/2012 18:49

I don't want to be MARRIED, or be a WIFE.

I just want to be ME, with legal protection.

I could not bring myself to say the words below (the vows)

Wish there was just some kind of legal declaration you could sign at a lawyers office.