Not understand the benefit of having a qualified teacher in school nursery

[ReallyTired]

How is a school nursery better than a day nursery or pre school? Surely all the children learn through play. Why is a qualified teacher better at supervising a bunch of tots than a nursery nurse.

Are outcomes for children in school nursery better than private nursery/ pre school?

Everything is taught through play and there is no formal teaching. Why is better to have qualified teacher rather than more nursery nurses? Many nursery nurses have substantial qualifications in childcare. Surely the important thing is to have someone who is hands on who will play with the children rather than endlessly making boring notes.

Seven years ago my son had a mixture of teacher directed and child directed activites. Why is it deemed so wrong for a young child to be taught something?

Why is a qualified teacher better at supervising a bunch of tots than a nursery nurse.

Yes, because that is all we do all day...

Some private nurseries employ teachers for the older group. You could also apply your logic to reception as both are early years foundation phase.

I think its likely to be because its in a school so they employ teachers and teaching assistants.

To answer your other question the only differences really are hours offered, the fact you pay for private and don't have to put them in uniform for private (not to sound too flippant).

Hth.

I think most nursery teachers (those in charge anyway) have to have teaching degrees nowadays.

I'm not sure if it's down to the difficulty of the work or the competition for the jobs though.

Mind you, you could say that about teaching in general. There are three non qualified teachers where I teach (private school) and two of them are among the best teachers in the school.

Qualifications and being good at the job do not have to go hand in hand in my experience.

Yabu

And a teensy bit ignorant. Sorry.

By the not much difference I mean nursery nurses do a lot more than just play and supervise. Two of my best friends are level 4 qualified nursery nurses and they work bloody hard and do planning, fee taking, parent visits, risk assessments etc.

The children do do directed activities with the teacher in nursery. they learn a lot through play. a good Foundation stage teacher will be able to plan activities so that the children learn through play.

DD is just finishing nursery attached to the school she will attend in sept and she will have the same teacher she has had in nursery.

This teacher has taught DD loads tbh although it is mainly play based ( as it should be) DD has flourished and learnt to read, basic writing etc...

This teacher is qualified and has realised that she has a very high achieving class who are ready to learn what they are taught in reception so has started to do that and has mixed it very well with fun activities.

They have had some formal teaching, sitting on the carpet and looking at the white board and interacting by going up to the white board to write their name or point to the correct answers to questions asked etc.

The previous year DD got 15 hours a week free at a private nursery and although yes she enjoyed it it was more child care rather than her learning iyswim which would have been fine except DD complained that she was bored. She has not complained once about her current nursery school.

The lady in charge of preschool was a qualified reception teacher and she was brilliant.
I don't know if that was teacher training or simply that she was amazingly calm and had a real way with the children.

DD2's absolute favourites though were the young women at the private nursery. One of the senior ones baby sat for us sometimes and she was lovely.

It was a Montessori nursery, but as DD only did one day It's impossible to work out what she learnt there and what she learnt at pre school or indeed what she learnt at home.

I never sent her to nursery to learn, but because I need a days peace and she needed company. She was and is the sociable one of the family.

DD1 went to the same pre school (but not nursery) and, reading between the lines, drove even the very patient teacher slightly mad.
I think DD1 sneaked off and climbed the wall bars and climbed up and got art materials off the teachers shelf, declined to interact with other DCs and was generally the same exhausting loveable pest she was at home.

Sorry pressed post too soon.

Therefore I don't know if you need qualified teachers, but you do need workers with the patience of saints and a quiet calm understanding of children.

I guess you also need someone with education skills to plan the activities whether this is a teacher or experience nursery nurse probably doesn't matter.

What does matter is that we pay nursery staff well enough that they feel it's worthwhile staying the profession training and gaining experience.

Really? I think you need to go on a course about learning through play. The activities are carefully planned as in reception. You might as well say why do children in reception need teachers?
They learn a lot and not by chance. The practitioners engage with child focused activities, while the child is playing helping them explore and understand specific concepts. Such as weight, measure, space, mark making, pairs, sounds etc. It may look like mayhem but is all carefully planned.

They also learn phonics, science etc at age appropriate level.

Even children's centres have teachers planning stay and play.

Just so we're all clear because I've read a couple of posts/threads recently that seem to imply a misunderstanding on this.

There's no such thing as a 'Nursery Teacher' in respect of a teacher who is qualified to only teach nursery children.

Teacher training covers Early Years; General Primary; Secondary. The training is at the same level, takes the same amount of time and leads to the same qualification. The content is different but only in the way that the content between English and Maths is different.

A Nursery Teacher still has to assess where individual children are at in their learning, identify a child's next steps and put opportunities in place for them to reach these and then recognise when they have happened, reflect on the effectiveness of a learning opportunity and ensure progress. No different to assessing with children in KS3! They still have to keep the learners interest, manage behaviour, establish appropriate boundaries and reward and sanction based on adherence to these. No different to children in KS3.

And at any level of education, these are the hard bits! The subject knowledge bit is appropriate to the education level of the learners, not the teachers.

And what nailak said.

I think the question should be why wouldn't you see the benefit of having a qualified teacher in nursery.

These are the 33 professional standards that must be attained and maintained by all teachers.

It applies to all teachers, regardless of the age of the children they are teaching. And only one of them, this one:

^Have a secure knowledge and understanding of their subjects/curriculum
areas and related pedagogy to enable them to teach effectively across the
age and ability range for which they are trained.^

refers to age specific subject knowledge specifically which is what I would imagine people get hung up on when thinking about whether a qualified teacher is needed.

One of the benefits of having a teacher in an Early Years class is that it changes the ratio of adults to children so less staff need to be employed.

Of course who that benefits is debatable and how much learning a child does in Nursery depends upon far more that the qualifications of the person in charge.

Well my DS had a report at the end of the nursery year which made it clear to me that "playing all morning" was actually structured, monitored and assessed activity to evaluate his growing skills and development.

I was very impressed and it really showed me that although teachers make it look easy there's a method and a reason behind everything they do.

Oh and YABU by the way.

I don't understand - first you say "Surely all the children learn through play." and then at the end of your post you say "Why is it deemed so wrong for a young child to be taught something?"

Which do you want?

Learning through play is a very highly skilled thing to get right. So much harder than just shoving worksheets in front of children. Trying to think about engaging the interests of 30 children all at different stages of development. FWIW, I'd be very happy for the whole of KS1 to be learning through play but I think that would require so much extra training of KS1 teachers that it wouldn't be possible.

Whether an early years qualified teacher gets more out of the children than a team of really great and experienced level 3 preschool assistants, I'm not sure. I also worry about having less adults around to assist the play in a school based nursery. I think 1:8 is probably about right, even if you have a teacher, but I guess finances have a bit to say in that. You could employ about 3 or 4 level 3 preschool assistants for the cost of 1 teacher. (Don't get me started about the rights and wrongs of that. )

I prefer my dcs going to a children's centre nursery or two reasons
Better hours
No uniform

That's all really :)

Lots of pre-schools I know actually have qualified teachers working there (usually only for a few years) while their own children are little. I have seen it work very well, even when managed by someone with NVQs.

Absolutely, tiggy.

most nursery nurses now adays can teach or be in an infant school as well as a private nursery , my friend has a degree in childcare and education and works in a nursery, I dont see your point tbh because they hardly look after abunch of tots all day

Ok, lets take a breathe. I

I have a choice. DD could carry on at her present private day nursery and get funding. The ratios are roughly 1 to 6 in the pre school room. Alternatively she could go to school nursery and where there is a ratio of 1 to 10.

At the day nursery the nursery nurses are all either qualified to level 3 or working towards qualifications. The head of room is working towards a two year early foundation stage degree.

Why is it better to have a nursery managed by someone with a four year BEd and less adults? Surely children need lots of adult interaction to make learning through play work.

"I dont see your point tbh because they hardly look after abunch of tots all day"

Ofcourse they look after small children. My daughter is at nursery at the moment where I am sure she is having a lovely time.

Do little people really need lots of pretentious "early years practitioners" ticking boxes or do they need someone to get down on their level and give them a cuddle and play WITH them.

what tiggytape said people moan that their child care isnt rhe best nurseries having unqualified un engaging staff and then they moan they are over qualified