To say Great GM comes to ours to see DD or not at all

[elizaregina]

see other thread, just had horrific time with an uncle visiting UK, wanting his DS to play with our DD. He directly asked my DH for details of where and when to meet then all of a sudden, with no consulation to us - the action was moved to PILS house and DU REFUSED with all manner of lame excuses to come to ours.

GGM is coming for four days in August, We had every intention of letting DD go to PILS all day usually 8am to 8pm so MIL and GGM could have some " quality" time with her.

HOwever after the disgusting controlling display exhibitd over DU visit, I feel we should put our foots down, Dh should call GGM ask her plans for the visist and book in a time NOW to see us.
Then email PILS and say - " this is our arrangment with GGM if you try and order me to bring DD to yours, that will not be happening">

This is latest in long line of problems and them treating my DH as a five year old....and relate said we must lay boundairies down adn stick to them, even if means cutting them off...however she is an old lady with a heart problem.

HOWEVER!! i AM also pregant and do not want PILS to know after horrific behaviour last time, led to problems with my bonding with baby...hounded us - cristised us etc...

So, alotugh I would genuinly like to see GM, ( she is german and doesnt speak english so lots of nodding and smiling), she is sharp and may notice bump,....

so sort of give in once again, and almost reward bad behaviour over uncles visit - by letting DD go there all day ....or put foot down, say she is coming here on x day and risk another nuclear fall out when FIL tries to force DH to take DD there......

Why do you ever see any of these people? I commented on your other thread, and your PIL sound just awful. I would not set foot in their house again, or let DD go there or spend time with them.

Do you like GGM and want her to see DD? If so, get DH to call her and arrange a date and time for her to come to your house. Then you could just go out and leave her to DH (I'm assuming he speaks German fine since you suggest him calling her?). Perhaps just for an afternoon rather than all day. Or they could go ou t to someplace fun with DD and get lunch out?

You definitely need to set boundaries - and I'm sure that's hard for DH after growing up with them - but the sooner you start the sooner they will either learn to adapt, or uou'll just stop seeing them.

I would just leave it alone to be honest. It's a shame if ggm doesn't see your dd but not the end of the world . Is she as weird as whichever pil she is the mother of?

Why do you ever see any of these people?

I dont see them now thankfuly, I have had a blissful year as they also totally backed off - its been wonderful. But with this stupid uncle coming its all reared its head again, once GGm has come they can all bugger off again.

I feel sorry for GGM, she has just been widowed and also lost her DSIL about three years ago....she is a sweet old lady - ( now), and DH loves her...its very sweet seeing them together. TBH i dont think she will live to see any of the other three GC have DC.....

DH calling her up will cause problems and a huge stink BUT is it our fault if GGM doesnt/refuses to pick up on the bloody parents???

or just leave it once again because she is an old lady - 86, with a heart problem..

good idea....i could say hello briefly so as not to be rude then get DH to take them out somewhere....

You sound so upset and the behaviour detailed on your other threads sounds so off the scale that a period of no contact might be best for all. a) It would give everyone time to calm down b) Your PIL's might get hint that their behaviour has consequences. c) If they don't, then you have the option to continue with the distancing /cut off for good - for your own sanity/the sake of you marriage. Sometimes the last resort is the only sensible option. A very brief joint 1 liner outline from both of you why you are distancing then stick to it. ie. 'As we can't seem to get on, its best for all of us if we have no contact for while'. If nothing else it will give you breathing space to plan strategies re. if you do want to give it another go with them and also let you enjoy your pregnancy. Good luck.

GGM lives in germany and is only here for four days - we took DD to see her for four days in January and we will not be seeing them this christmas....

I would feel very guilty to deny her seeing DD at all.

Would it help if your DH actually picked up the phone and talked to the other rellies (not PIL), and explained what the situation is? I've read your other threads and everything seems to be done by e-mail - it might be easier to answer their questions about why he's backed from PIL and doesn't want to do joint visits?

I wouldn't bother emailing your PIL if they're that bad, just do everything directly with the family members you want to see.

Also, is it possible that PIL have told relatives to choose between visiting yours or theirs?

what do you want?
think it through, make your rules, tell the family, stick to them.
they'll learn to live with it.

Yes I have thought about that, but because dh hasnt spoken up before and they have a life time of info through them nad sil, I dont know if they would belive him!

its all such a nightmare.

I have thgt about DH calling DG direclty to explain BUT his german isnt THAT good, he doesnt think so - sounds great to me....AND if she was upset.....which she might be - all hell would break loose if it hadnt already.

thats why i was thinking, call her to say - " what is your schecule would you like eto come to ours - lunch or go out on x day then....."

make that plan with her - THEN email PILS - " i am seeing GM on this day, if you interefere like you did with uncle - SHE WILL NOT SEE HER ggd"??? SO hopefully they would leave the plans alone nad not they themselves upset GGM but if they did - it would be on thier consiounce not ours...

I'd get in touch with GGM directly and invite her over, your DH can go and collect her from PILs. If she can't come then sadly she can't see your DD, but make sure she knows it's your PIL's fault. Re pregnancy, how far along are you? The weather's pretty shit so maybe you could bulk up your top half with a big wooly cardy and wear a loose floaty top or something..

22 weeks now. can just about hide it now. shes due augst 17th

I am a bit over weight though! So not like a bean pole with bump....i could just about get away with it - if walk round with a donut in my hand also

If his German isn't great, he may manage fine face-to-face but it's trickier over the phone (you can't see the confused look and try again...).

Would he have to collect GGM from the PILs house, or could he meet up with her at a neutral location? I think it would be difficult for him to turn up on their doorstep to collect her and not get dragged into complications, even if he had managed to get something arranged.

I think he would have to collect she cant drive etc...
MIl wont say a word if he collects but FIl may try too but I think even though he is shit scared of them, he would be able to get in and out - but no not totally ideal.
The longer DH doesnt see them for - the better and more assertive he becomes, but a few mins in thier company and he quickly reverts back to invrotverd 5 year old!

You sound quite controlling too.
Presumably this is an elderly woman, who you have said only speaks german. Notwithstanding any other issues, it really makes sense that she would be far more comfortable having you visit her where she is staying and where people speak german rather than expecting her to come to you.

I don't think elderly GGm with heart condition's visit is the time to put your foot down.
Go along with visit to GGM but move further away from toxic PILs - or it that is too hard get one of those phones so you know who is calling and don't answer their calls.

If it's too hard to stand up to them it's better to reduce contact altogether.

it really makes sense that she would be far more comfortable having you visit her where she is staying and where people speak german rather than expecting her to come to you.

yes true - but also we have been savaged in past for not visiting various relis in germnay. They seem to be obsessed with their houses, so not inviting her here could cause insult - but yes

that is an option - if we forget about PILs and concentrate on her - DD could go there for the day - and DH collect DD later and see GM.

I am sure she would much rather have a whole day with her DD and GGC etc....
That would certainily be the easiest course of action all round.

Bearing in mind this is a one off and she lives in germany.

I just find it hard after last episode!

"You sound quite controlling too. "

I prob am, this situ frustrates me beyond belief in so many ways.

My own close family is far far far from perfect but I have learnt to be much more cut and dried. I had to cut off contact from two siblings for a long long time. My DS I re united with - and she turned again, so cut her off again this time for good. I didnt speak to my DB for about 7 years, after a long time I relented and he came to me - humbly - genuinely sorry - and we now have a great relationship that I feel he wont jeapordise again.

I think no - is a great word, I am happy to not have people in my life that cause me nothing but worry and upset, BUt DH is afraid of his DP!!!

IF i in control here I would happily tell them all about DH and his depression etc and then tell them all to F off or contact him directly, but until they learn to talk to DH as a valued son and human.....not to bother! thats what I would do persoanlly and be very hapy with that.

my heart says suspend everything for her - my head says - no THEY HAVE TO LEARN!

Maybe you could take DD out to Germany for a holiday and do the rounds visiting any relatives you actually want to stay in touch with. That way you won't have to worry about meeting up when they're over here. Better make it soon though, sounds like GGM is getting on a bit.

yes we did that in jan and would be happy to go back in jan...BUT at the moment we are living pretty much hand to mouth with money...but yes that is an option.

arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I am so assertive now with my own family i find it soo hard to understand DH problems - having said that the dad is so hard and cold - i dont blame him but its such a bloody nightmare.

I agree to not see any of them under any circumstances. Tell them anything you like, that you have prior arrangements, won't be here, or tell them the bald truth.

You suffer as much as DH every time there is a visit or even the hint of one before it has even happened, so honestly you have to cut yourselves free to be happy. Plus your DC will gain nothing from such people, and I would be very worried about the psychological damage there is the potential for if you continue to have contact with them. DC will learn OCD behaviours from MIL and may well think that they are dirty because of comments she might make. They will be controlled not in a good way and could end up frightened of their grandparents. They will observe the way you and DH are treated which will not be pleasant, and visits will always be strained and difficult.

I feel that you should withdraw altogether from this toxic family. Do whatever you need to, to control communications, number block on phone, change numbers if you have to, delete emails, consider moving home if necessary. I don't think anyone who has ditched toxic parents has regretted it in the long run, but the indecision about whether to do so when dragged out can cause massive stress, and you've witnessed DH's reversion each time which takes some recovery. You are grown ups with the right to choose your own life path, and protect yourselves and your DC from such damage. You have to focus on the benefits of not having them in your lives.

girly very true - agree with all that - but what about poor great GM!

If GGM lived here and much more contact wolodnt be such a problem, but fact she is here for four days....

Well, I guess the choice is between making GGM happy or keeping DH unstressed. If he could explain why he doesn't want contact with his parents to the other relatives it would possibly make a difference, but I wouldn't be holding my breath. I suspect the parents will have explained how 'difficult' he is, and 'after all we've done for him' crap. So if DH did lay his cards on the table and tell his side of the story I doubt it would be believed. They would place you as the villain turning him against them, and no-one will accurately translate all this into German for GGM, so as not to upset her, and also because they don't want her to know.

If you think it will all kick off, why not just not commit to going to PIL, but not refuse outright? Then come down with some 'fake' seriously infectious bug that you all have and wouldn't want to infect everyone with, especially not an old lady with a heart problem? That should stop them coming round to collect DD.

I wouldn't worry about lying, think of it as damage limitation. I bet they've told some whoppers about you and DH.

thats possibly a good medium way out of this, see how land lies at time and any nastiness like the uncle scenario...just bow out with illness....without having committed or denied....then go and see her in january again....( also with unexpected bundle of joy!).

That would be better, and not controlled by the PIL.

A good delaying phrase is 'I'll let you know.' and leave it at that until you inform them you won't be able to make it.

I would screen phone calls while you're 'off sick' and not pick up unless you know who's calling, let them leave a message. Just because someone phones it doesn't mean you have to rush to reply or return their call. You don't want anyone to rumble you!