to change my mind and tell the school I don't want dd to have cervical cancer jab?

[lowfatiscrap12]

Yes, I know there's another (very long) thread about vaccines.
I was going to post my question there, but thought it would be lost under twenty odd pages of replies.
Last week I gave dd1 (aged 12) a consent form to have all 3 of her vaccinations for cervical cancer.
Now I should point out that I am very pro-vaccination. All three of my dc's have had, after plenty of research and reading by me, all of their childhood vaccinations. I've read and researched and looked at all the pros and cons and am generally pro vax.
But I've been umming and ahhing over this one.
I've checked and it's Gardasil she'd be having.
I've looked at the reasons for and against it.
I decided last week that the benefits outweighed the negatives, but now I'm wavering slightly.
I'm 39. I didn't have cervical cancer vaccinations at school.
I had safe sex and smear tests.
I've read about some of the side effects of Gardasil and I'm now quite tempted to phone the school and ask them to destroy my consent letter. Or send another letter in. Or just keep dd at home the day they do the HPV jabs.
AIBU?
What does everyone on Mumsnet think about the new HPV vaccine?

My 2 eldest dds have not had it. They agreed that they would consider it at a later date. Not enough testing and no one knowing what the term effects are put me off. Immunising against some strains will encourage new super strains to emerge I would have thought. I'm not an expert though! The websites I have read about the testing indicated it was rushed through. Also when will we know it is effective?

Can I just say that I am glad this thread hasn't turned into the usual bunfight about selfish parents not vaxing.

I have all of those symptoms you listed Sidge, but all my doctor keeps doing is taking swabs, giving me antibiotics "just in case an infection wasn't picked up on". The past 10 days, the bleeding has become even more erratic. I bled heavily for 2 days, then stop for a day, bled again for a day, stop for 2 days, bled for half a day, then stopped for 12ish hours and started again and so far, only appeared to stop last night for 4 hours. When I am not bleeding, I lose unusual vaginal discharge and the pain I get can feel like a knife is stabbing my cervix if you get what I mean, and also like my lower abdomen has been kicked around a pitch like a football. Everything, apart from the really random bleeding which has only happened in the last 10 days, I have had for months.

Nothing else has even been mentioned. Even when I ask "Well what happens when I have done what you have said, taken the 2 week course of antibiotics, and waited 4 weeks and still I have the symptoms or they have got worse, or even got better but still there, what then?" I get told to just come back and we will see. But then only do more swabs.

Honestly, I just feel like giving up and accepting it is just one of those things sometimes. But then when I end up doubled up in pain, I just know something isn't quite right.

Maybe I need to try a different doctor

I don't think YABU. I wouldn't want any future daughters of mine to have it (I only have sons) HPV does not = cervical cancer. Only a very small percentage of people with HPV will go on to develop cervical cancer. I think early and regular smears are much more important and I think it is ridiculous that they don't offer them to people until their mid -20s in England. The fact is that even with the HPV vaccine you could still develop hpv, develop abnormal cells and potentially develop cervical cancer and you wouldn't know because you haven't had a smear test!

There are some concerns among medical professionals that the vaccine may actually result in more cases of cervical cancer because people may become complacent about smear tests because they think they are safe and protected from having the vaccine.

Shullbit, I do hope this isn't your GP putting you off like this? You need to demand to see a specialist.

On vaccination my older ds has had it.

Personal choice but think you should let your dd decide.

Hope forever, the difference is that loads of people who were smoking also got lung disease. The circumstantial evidence just kept piling up until research finally found the actual link.

As far as I am aware, there are not loads cases of arthritis following the HPV vaccine piling up waiting to be analysed.

Shullbit you should most definitely see another GP.

Even if you have safe sex you can still get hpv. Why are you only against this vaccine?

Normally I'm really good at reading threads before I comment but my DCs are bawling so I've not got much time.....so I'm sorry if my post doesn't follow or points already made. I'm sorry - I know nothing about the vaccine and my DD is pre school so I haven't educated myself yet so can't comment on your choice.

But my personal experience of this subject is that I caught genital warts from a long term BF who I was engaged to (but who I later found out wasn't entirely faithful!! ) and I went on to do a series of abnormal smears and it was a while before anything was done or concerns were raised by GP. I would just be called back for more because I was showing pre cancerous cells or something. I was probably about 25 or 26 years old and had been with the BF for 2 years by this stage and was on the pill. In the end I had the cancerous cells lasered off which wasn't so bad and after the prolonged and embarrassing treatment for warts it was a breeze. I had to have smears every 6 months and then every year for a long time - I'd say 6 years or more - after that. I have to say I'm more worried now hitting my 40s about what I caught from him - especially as diseases such as throat cancer are linked to the HPV virus.

I wish it had been available when I was 13 - it would have saved me years of pain, worry and the constant fear that my abnormal cells (found when I was 21) may return one day.

If I had a daughter, she would be having the jab - no question.

Sidge sorry, I was reading Shullbit's posts but also DeepPurple's and Birdsgottafly's. They all sounded like they were young women reporting symptoms to a GP who refused further investigations in time.

I'm sure GPs can order smears at any time, but it sounds from Shullbit's and other posts as though GPs are refusing these on the grounds that the women are under 25. I'm sure that's not 'regulation' iyswim but if those posters are to be believed, it seems to be what's happening.

Should also mention that I've had abnormal cells lasered twice (not done properly the first time!) and I still wouldn't want the HPV vaccine for me or future DDs.

I was early 20s btw - smears were routine at that age where I live. It's madness not to offer them to under 25s. The vaccine doesn't guarantee anything. Without earlier smears people will still slip through the net.

Sidge (again ) and Shull as a contrast, I had symptoms recently similar to what Shull describes though without such severe pain - I was whipped in to see a nurse for a smear the same week - I am 32.

Sorry Sidge but it really does sound to me like Shull is being denied treatment using her age as an excuse.

The only thing I have been refused is a smear test until I am 25. Nothing else has even been suggested, no investigations etc, apart from 4 lots of swabs, all clear. But I will be demanding to know why before seeing a different GP.

Thank you ladies for the information and advice.

"vaccine may actually result in more cases of cervical cancer because people may become complacent about smear tests because they think they are safe"

Tell your DD that the vaccine is for something else. If she doesn't know she is vaccinated for cervical cancer, she won't become complacent about it.

Cote, seriously? You think lying to a young woman about what's happening to her body is ethical? Wow.

What happens when one of her mates who has had it tells her what it's really for? poof! goes your relationship with DD.

I have pain during sex and have been refused a smear. I can understand not routinely smearing everyone til age 25 but if someone has symptoms then it's insane sticking to that rule.
Im too old for vaccine and too young for smear :(
I would definately vaccinate at daughters.

"I've had abnormal cells lasered twice (not done properly the first time!) and I still wouldn't want the HPV vaccine"

Burning the cervix (with laser or cryo) is not the best removal method for precancerous cells. Dr needs to cut out the infected zone, send it for biopsy, and therefore be sure that they have all been removed (= clean outer zone).

The thing is you don't have to take many risks to contract HPV. As far as I understand it's not accumalitive (sp?) like smoking or sunbathing.

I didn't have sex until I was 22, never smoked, was a veggie health freak, 2 boyfriends, regular smears. And hey presto by 30 I had what they call 'carcinoma in situ' and had 2 big chunks of my cervix cut out. Luckily I was able to have 2 kids afterwards but ended up with a hysterectomy at 35 as the remaining cells were starting to change.

When my 3yo DD is a teenager I will get her the best vaccine on the market. It's not worth the risk skipping the jabs IMO.

Krum do you know if you have a retroverted cervix? Ironically, you often only find out during a smear! But you could ask for a pelvic exam (looking up your vadge with a speculum but NOT doing the smear) to check. I ask because lots of women with retro cervices apparently have pain with sex. I have one and I don't get pain, but it is apparently common.

shullbit you need to see another GP and refuse to move until they refer you for proper investigations.

Revolting - That got you all excited, didn't it

If you are concerned about complacency re smear tests, you can still give your DD the vaccine during a routine dr visit for example. No risk of friends telling her what it is.

"Ethical" has nothing to do with this. If you need to send a consent form, this means your DD is not of an age where she can take these decisions for herself. Later on in life, you can mention to her that she has had the vaccine, if you so wish.

By the way, weighing "DD has to know everything" against "DD must be protected against cervical cancer as much as possible", I know which would win. Complete honesty is nowhere near as valuable as DD's life, imho.

Eh? I don't think I responded in a particularly inflammatory way. I just think lying to a 12/ 13 yo girl about a medical treatment is massively unethical, and I think you wouldn't find an NHS dr who'd collude in it. Surely Gillick competency would apply?

I think ethical has everything to do with this myself, and this is on a continuum with HCPs doing things without consent during childbirth because 'it's necessary, and what she doesn't know won't frighten her' etc.

You don't tell an 8 year old what her vaccine is for but doing the same to a 12 year old is massively unethical, is it?

Why? They are both children.

Or do you think the 12 year old is a woman?

But cote, given that your DD would not be making any decisions about whether to go to routine smear tests until she was 25 I can't see that lying to her when she's twelve would help at all. By the time she's old enough for the purpose of the lie to apply she'd be old enough to be told the truth and / or find out for herself.