To not have this child over anymore?

[letsblowthistacostand]

I have been thinking about this a lot and would like to get some other opinions. I have 2 DDs, 6yo & 4yo. DD6 has a friend who is creative, clever and interesting. She can be really good fun to have around as she is interested in everything. However, she and DD6 sometimes torment DD4--not just teasing, they scream at her and throw things (friend is quite inventive with her tortures).

DD6 does not behave this way when friend isn't around. With other friends, they either ignore DD4 or do much more mild teasing or chase games (sometimes they even all play together!) DD6 & DD4 squabble plenty, neither is an angel but friend just seems to add an element of meanness to the equation.

I have spoken to friend's dad (main carer) and he is of the opinion that although tormenting younger siblings is not acceptable and children must be told off for it, there is no way to stop it happening as it is a natural part of family life. I agree with this to an extent but there is a level of unkindness that was never there in my own family, and that DD6 does not have when friend is not there. I have spoken to and sanctioned DD6 many times for this behaviour but it just doesn't stop.

So AIBU to just not have friend over again? Her dad thinks I am--he seems to think that it's DD4's lot in life to put up with it (he has seen DD6 & friend at their worst). I think she shouldn't have to.

Tormenting younger siblings is a fairly common thing, but, actually, I'd worry quite a lot about an unrelated child behaving like this towards a younger child. It's a red flag, IMO.

Why would ending it early be all kinds of hellish?

If the friends mother isn't going to back you up or end the playdate early, I'm not sure what options you have other than not having her over.

The BFF parents reaction says it all really.

Does yr DD4 have any friends that could come over on the same night? Sometimes the power that the older two wield over yr DD4 can just be too unusual and fun (for them) to resist. Also if the other girl's dad just thinks it's part if life - then I wonder what he's saying to his DD on the way home. Friendships can often be fleeting at this age so invite some other girls round to see if you can help that along ( girls who also have little sisters can sometimes be better)

I wouldn't have her over if the parents are that unhelpful. Doesn't sound like she is a particularly good friend for your eldest, and why bother if it makes your life difficult. Hard enough hosting playdates at the best of times.

The other thing to bear in mind is that your younger daughter will grow up thinking this is normal behaviour and it is permissible to behave that way on playdates toward other children or younger siblings. Is that what you want her to think?

I expect that the other dad finds it very convenient for his dd to come to yours regularly. So he's not going to support your view.
It's probably not at all convenient if you start raising these barriers plus from what you said up thread I'm assuming dm views her dd through rise tinted specs.
I'm also assuming from your comment about how difficult it would be to return his dd that other dad goes and does something else with his time when dd is at yours. Even if that is just hanging out with your dh.
I had this to some extent as I have 3 so there was usually at least one younger sibling available to torment.

I adopted a zero tolerance approach to any meanness as its unacceptable in my view for my dc to be made unhappy in their own home. If you can't feel safe at home where can you?
You have 2 choices

• give her one more chance, but make sure her dad is available to take her home. Make it clear that this is it and as others have said make your other dd aware of her responsibility to her little sister.
• or let the friendship dwindle, you say your dd has other friends so encourage these instead. Its the holidays soon so you can naturally cut down on how often you see child.

I don't think children are ever too young to see that behaviour or actions have consequences if it's done in an age appropriate way.

i'm with you on stopping having her over. why bother with her? learning to avoid people who are nasty is a valuable life skill.

Ok great to know I'm not alone in thinking this is all a bit unacceptable. I don't want DD2 to feel unsafe in her own home and that this is how siblings treat each other! I know my mum would have come down like a ton of bricks on any of these shenanigans, don't know why I have been so soft til now!

I have spoken to friend's dad (main carer) and he is of the opinion that although tormenting younger siblings is not acceptable and children must be told off for it,
Then start telling her off proper and use whatever punishment is acceptable to both families, time out, play date cut short, whatever will make an impression on this child.
Maybe you could set his 6 year old up with a couple of bully 8 year olds who are just acting like sisters and tormenting his daughter.
Just cause it's normal doesn't mean it should ever be tolerated, in my house I call them out on it and let them know in no uncertain terms, keep it up your out of here.
He needs to be a strong parent, teach his daughter how to treat people with a little more respect, especially younger more vulnerable children.

I wouldn't have her over at all.

Fuck what her parents think.

No way on gods green earth would I allow one of mine to be bullied like this

I wouldn't have her over, ever. Never mind what the parents think. It isn't their DD who is being tormented.

I would also be coming down on DD1 like a ton of bricks for being nasty to little sister.

My two DDs are teens now but we never had any grief like this, they were kind to each other in the main with just the odd bicker. They now get on really well.

If you don't sort this out you risk alienating DD2 from DD1, children don't forget how they were treated by parents and siblings.

Given that her mother doesn't want you to correct her, and her father thinks her behaviour is ok, I really wouldn't have her over any more.

You have obviously discussed this with your DD1 several times - up to you whether you give her a final warning or not now - but if you do I would say that she needs to remember that friends come and go but her sister is forever, and she should be sticking with her sister, not this mean girl (And she is mean).

I think your DH may be onto something - it doesn't have to be a conscious process (although at 6 it still could be) that drives her behaviour, just an instinctive one - but the reasoning could still be sound.

If your DD1 insists on staying friends with the mean girl, then it should only be at the mean girl's house, or at yours when your DD2 is out of the way. I hope though, for both your DDs' sakes, that the friendship does fade when she is no longer allowed around to your house.

And by the way, mean girl's Dad has an idiotic attitude to his own DD's behaviour - if she carries on like that without any check from her own parents, she's going to end up bloody lonely.

YANBU. Your DD shouldn't be tormented in her own home.

No more playdates with this kid and if your DD1 asks why tell her.

The dad can fuck right off.

If my ds had been on a playmate and the parent told me that ds had been teasing/being unlined to a sibling, I would be mortified and make damn sure it didn't happen again! I cannot believe the dad's attitude.

Give her ONE warning - "I have told you before Jemima about teasing little sister, I don't want it to happen again, if it does I all ring your dad/take you home."

And yes the dad can fuck off too!