To think PIL and thier family's controlling behaviour is OFF the richter scale

[elizaregina]

Posted a few days ago about one aspect of this.

Dh was in therapy when met him, at 25 due to excessivly controlling DP's. I do mean " excessive", MIl must have some sort of ocd, micro manages you in house, I had a cup of tea once and un beknown to me a tiny drop of tea was making its way down cup, she shrieked " X get a cloth, her tea is going to warp MY floor..." so DH got a cloth ..." NOOO not THAT cloth!!!!", or " help yourself to the the caserole," so we start to follow orders ( she is german)" " actually NOOOOOO stop, you will drip on MY table cloth". She went mental if my Dh when living there when we first got together wouldnt iron his sheets, or a tiny tomotoe ketchup stain was found after we ate there when they werent there....you have to wash your hands in a particular sink, the second you finish eating you can feel tension until plates go in dishwasher. i tried to help clear up after meals but i got SICK OF IT - " urrrrr WE dont use that cloth to wipe those glasses....ooooohhh we dont tend to put that plate in the dishwasher....ooohhh we dont place knives that like....." i need a degree in it - i thought fuck it! its alll spoken about in a very very serious voice. All they said to Dh all the time was " Dh dont scratch floors - dont mark wall paper - dont slam your bedroom door you will crack wall, dont do this - dont do that..." she cried " i cant have anything nice because of DH,"
Anyway - DH therapist told them to back off and let him be, he will be who he will be. Did they listen> NO. They didnt change thier behaviour at all. They tell everyone - he has problems. Since Dh has been out of that house, that prison, he has not been depressed once. NOT ONCE. MIl doesnt credit me with this at all perhaps cant even see th change - that EVERYONE ELSE CAN.
Now years down the line its one horror after another, culminating with HUGE problems after first DD was born. MIL verablly attacked me for an hour - a week after birth AND burying my beloved brother. Since then I havant set foot in thier prison of a house...however...they have been invited over for various events and MIl has ignored me. FIL has made effort but the fact he doesnt like me or DH reeks from every pore. There was a funeral last year and because Dh said he didnt want to wear a suit MIL brought for him, MIL ignored him at the funeral!!! FIL also tried to force him to wear it! 33 years old married with child. constant calls - " when are coming over to pick up your suit," in a cold hard demanding voice. " I N.E.E.D "Y.O.U" TO COME AND GET THE SUIT YOUR MOTHER HAS BEEN WORKING ON".
Then an uncle said he was visiting from abroad, said a list of stuff to do on a round robin, including his DS to play with our DD. Fine! DH wrote back, said meet at our house on x day for lunch, play and maybe play park.
Uncle didnt reply. Instead on a FINAL PLANS round robin...put - "sunday - play PIL house, LUNCH PILS and play park near PILS. "
Dh responded and said - perhaps you didnt get my inital email but here it is again, play/lunch/playpark MY HOUSE.
Uncle wrote back...." i am sorry I have already comitted to your fathers arrangements for play and lunch at his house, we have been doing alot of miles and need to cut back."
Our house is 7 miles from PILs and uncle also would have passed our area on way to PILS for second part of his holiday!
DH responded....." there seems to be confusion, I have never agreed to play/lunch at my P's house, indeed I was never asked to go, if your not coming to me, there is other stuff to get on with. "
Uncle - " yes its too complicated for us to get to you, but you can always visit us."
DH didnt respond but on sat night at 9pm FIl was knocking on our door!!! we didnt answer as no point, a cold hard robotic business man who cares noting for u s- made it clear in past we are the family loosers as we are not in banking etc...gives more credit to SIL for doing triathlons than DH for raising a wonderful DD!!!!
we have great GM visit looming, i was going to let DD go to PILS for the whole day so GGm could see her and also lunch/dinner at ours on a four day stay, but now - I just feel Dh should tell them all to F off? ask Great Gm to get a taxi here...but dont want to upset her - just had pacemaker fitted...

I am SICK of it. I just dont get why someone would want to control a 33 year old man like FIL wants to with DH? FIl is then lost as to why DH has confidence problems and is on a long road to learn to assert himself which of course is all tied into him getting a better job, which is a BIG reason why FIL is so horrid to him, as he only values money.
Everthing about uncles corropondence has been so rude to DH, and to me, they all know I wont go to PILS house, havant for 4.5 years!

Isnt this maddness? If my DD marries has own family and suggests to my sister - come to ours - I wouldnt try to FORCE her with a background plan to come to my house? If she doesnt want to come I would ask why, and try to address it! I wouldnt go knocking on her door to hound her!Or force her to wear clothes of MY CHOOSING at 33!!!
In past when DH has stood up to them, they blame that on me, that he doesnt have his own thoughts, its all me. That if it wasnt for me - everything would be hunky dory but when i meet him, he was dead agaisnt having children- parents fuck you up - hated his parents and if anything in the ealry days I tried to help!I wish they would f off - but they will not let go.
I have tried to get him to directly corrospond with his family Du/da etc but they INISIST on going through parents- the only person I care about is his Great GM as she is old, recntly widowed...livivng abroad...but she insistis on going through parents.

Omg don't know what to say! I feel really bad for you, I remember reading other posts of yours about you husband's family. Your poor DH, I think his parents are lucky you still have any contact with them after everything!

YANBU it all sounds crazy. I'm sorry I'm not much help really cos I think if I were me, I'd want nothing to do with the lot of them! What good can they possibly add to your husband's life, your life, and your DD's life when they behave in such a way.

God they sound awful. I thought my Mum was bad, but your PILs are truly awful.

I don't have anything useful to say as you seem to be very aware of their controlling issues. I hope your DH can cope with this and I wish you all the best of luck.

I don't think you can say anything to these people tbh. Are you and DH ready to cut them out of your lives? It would be sad for DD not to know her family but surely that is better than having the sort of memories of childhood that your DH has?

As for GGM I would write to her to keep up contact.

wow I can see these patterns in my dh's family but your in-laws actually are off the scale. What damaging people.

My dh doesn't care any more, we do what we want to and take the good bits (there are good points to his family too) and snigger at the bad... When there are no good points am not sure where you go other than away.

Your poor dh to have lived with that for so long. Poor all of you.

I really feel for you; you PILs are indeed of the Richter scale! I personally would just have NOTHING more to do with them. Do you have to keep commenting that your MIL is German though? She's nuts, but being German is nothing to do with it! It just gives the wrong kind of impression.

Where does it say she is German? I have read through and can't see.

They sound awful.

Baroness

"Do you have to keep commenting that your MIL is German though? She's nuts, but being German is nothing to do with it! It just gives the wrong kind of impression."

I am really really sorry if I caused offense...I know that Germany as a nation has a reputation for cleanliness, and I have been persecuted over sweet wrappers, my DH over the tinest transgressions....by my german MIL however. Its so hard not to feel bitter, but your RIGHT, its a racial sterotype. I am aware that most Germans do not adhere to this sterotyping!

Oh, spotted it now

There's nothing like a bit of racial stereotyping, but she sounds like she has some issues regardless of her birthplace.

Is the GGM her mother? What does she think of it all?

TBF, OP doesn't "keep commenting" that her MIL is German - she has said it once in this thread.

Anyway, OP, they sound totally awful and I think you should encourage your DH to have nothing at all to do with them. Perhaps he can do this with his therapist's help as he/she seems to realise what they are like?

Is the GGM her mother? What does she think of it all?

The GGM is her mother - german and doesnt speak english! I think she has therefore not been able to pick up on the way they all treat my DH, talk to him etc. Also he is shy and more likely to duck away than stand and say - this is why I was depressed and unhappy.
So you can imagine the GGM thinks his depression was nothing to do with parents AT ALL, they say he has a suicide gene in his fmaily and blame it on that!!! Its quite obvious his depression was purely circumstantial.

I honeslty have never met anyone with such a happy - steady personality, never ever moody, or down - occasionally if the computer isnt working he will shout but he has a more steady personality than anyone I know including me.

I always felt that the GGM was very nice to me the times I have seen her but after one brief xmas visit, MIL told me, GGM was " disgusted" with our carpet, it was filthy and she cried on the phone to her everyday after DD was born, because the carpet hadnt been removed at that point and we exposed DD to it!!!!

It was an old carpet but it was the last thing to go in our house renovation because we used it to protect the floor boards under from paint which we eventually sanded and revarnished! I had thought the xmas visit went well and when I was told this - I was really really upset, esp as I had cleaned the house like a maniac before thier arrival!

The last time DH and I visited her in Germnay she seemed like a normal sweet old lady, lots of smiles and yummy food. DH did tell her though that he didnt want to speak to his DF as he was calling when we were there.

Yanbu but if dh can't cope perhaps he could defer all memos to you as you sound more able to deal with them, the only issue with that plan is that you run the risk of also seaming controling so you would have to be aware of this

howdoo

Perhaps he can do this with his therapist's help as he/she seems to realise what they are like?

they paid for his pyscotherapist years ago, its so expensive. MIL SAID

" I dont like your therpist much, he blames everything on us and expects us to pay for it"

we have been to relate and they were helpful saying we need boundaries and must stick to them even if it means cutting them off, but he is afraid of them....and that he must be strong having kept his own personality in that extreme family for so long.

he definalty needs to work out what he is afraid of, but going to relate is very very expensive, or more therapy.

without uncles/grannys coming to thier house and giong through his parents though, keeping boundaries would be alot easier.

there are usually issues at xmas, but this year have told him to say we are away for a month. I am pregnant and they dont know - the baby is due november...

From what you've written OP, there doesn't appear to be anything positive about the relationship you and your DH have with his parents. So you probably know what the answer is don't you? End the relationship. Why should you and DH be subjected to such ridiculous behaviour?

As they age, it will only get worse as ime most elderly people just become further entrenched in their ways of doing things. I would also never consider allowing DD to be alone in their company. In fact, I wouldn't want her to see their behaviour at all. Your DH is proof of how damaging they are. Don't subject your DD to the same environment. If you can persuade DH to walk away, do it. It may mean that he also loses some of the relationships within the wider family, but to be honest if those people are also willing to be controlled by PIL (eg uncle won't visit your house, only theirs), then they aren't really any sort of support for DH. Walk (better still run) away from them.

howdoo it's been mentioned on previous threads.

elizaregina you didn't cause me any offence. I actually live very close to the German border and do know exactly where you're coming from regarding rules, cleanliness, and everything in it's place. Usually, though, this is a good thing! I suppose I just wanted to pick you up on it before you got flamed.

So MIL told you that GGM was disgusted at your carpet? That sounds like your MIL's spin on the story, and may not even be true. Forget it. And consider the carpet to have contributed positively to your DD's immune system.

Read this, it might be useful voiceofcassandra.wordpress.com

"regarding rules, cleanliness, and everything in it's place. Usually, though, this is a good thing! "

yes to a degree, BUT FIL worked on a nuclear sub, so you can imagine just how crucial it was in that small envirnomnet for months on end, on such a volitle vessle, to keep things in thier place....it takes it - with MIL to a new level.

you do not take handbags futher than the utility room in thier house. I left my handbag on the back of a chair once and was spoken to as if I had done a crap on the floor! Its too extreme.

There is a " no go zone" special room, that has white stuff in, no red wine allowed, only white drinks, on the ONE DAY a YEAR you are allowed to enter it!!!! A single item out of its place will cause him to panic. eg, a bottle opener not put straight back in the drawer!

usually I have found whilst one partner may be a bit anal - the other balances this out - in this case it seems they have wound each other to tight to live even.

i imagine them sometimes doing cartwheels round the house when no one is there to protect the carpets!

hugglebug

just had a quick read - senta shiver down my spine!
FIl is def doing this - he never divulges much info infact its a family joke that no one really knows what he does for a living, as goes off over seas for weeks at a time. you can NEVER get a straight answer from him and when he does speak, I do genuinly stuggle to understand what he is tyirng to say.
Thanks for this will explore more.

Bear with me for trying to put the other perspective on this. I'm anally clean and tidy myself and was brought up to value form and manners to a slightly absurd extent.

So, tidiness is tidiness. I don't like tea stains or tomato ketchup stains or dirty carpets or dust. None of those things happen in my house - well they happen but they are eradicated immediately. So I have sympathy with anal folk. Is it so hard to let us be anal and live and let live? It is their house after all.

I don't understand the issue over the suit, unless your DH was proposing to go to a funeral and NOT wear a suit. You haven't said. But I would play merry hell with my DCs if they dared go to a funeral not wearing a suit. It's a mark of respect. No-one likes wearing suits, of course they don't. But you wear suits at funerals. End of.

They did actually pay for your DH's psycotherapist. That does show that they are trying to do their best. And yes, it will have been expensive. Is your MIL not allowed to say so? And frankly of course a lot of most people's issues can be traced back to their parents, and of course it will be unpalatable to have to pay for someone only to be told that the troubles are all your fault.

And you know, all or most of us can claim to have dysfunctional parents. How we react to that is within our own characters. So your DH may well have been troubled and part of that will be attributable to his parents and part of that will be attributable to his own character, and perhaps to his youth as well.

I don't know why you won't go to your PIL's house. It sounds extreme to me. Even if I cordially loathed my PILs (and believe me, we had nothing, absolutely nothing, barring DH in common) I still went around. My DH has a PITA sister. But he loves her and she is his, so I am hugely respectful and want to preserve that relationship. For him. The way I look at things, is there is little enough love in this world, that everyone should have as much of it as they can. I don't want to cut my DH off from a source of love and support. What you have relayed, doesn't sound as though they don't love him. On the contrary, it sounds as though they do.

It also sounds as though in being so protective of your DH, you might be cutting off a source of love and support for him and in fact for you all. I would only advise doing that in extreme cases.

OMG!! They sound truly awful!
They are even above the ricter scale of my pil which come pretty close!

Good lord OP, your PIL are off the scale dysfunctional! And I say this coming from a dysfunctional family.

The only thing I can think of to suggest is in the longer term, to put a long physical distance between you and your PIL. Move somewhere so that they have less access to you. Some people find a hour's drive enough, others a whole country. For myself, I live an hour's drive from my dysfunctional parents, and the silence is golden. I can choose when to see them, on my own terms, and if I choose not to see or speak to them, they have to accept that.

Good luck.

...cutting off a source of love and support for him...

It sounds to me (from reading previous threads by this OP as well as this one) as though what little love and support is forthcoming is hugely conditional on submitting to control. That isn't healthy. And it also sounds as though PIL are quick to anger and very slow to forgive. That isn't healthy either, for you, DH and especially for your DD. I would see them as little as possible and not in their home.

Hopefullyrecovering

"I don't understand the issue over the suit, unless your DH was proposing to go to a funeral and NOT wear a suit. You haven't said. But I would play merry hell with my DCs if they dared go to a funeral not wearing a suit. It's a mark of respect. No-one likes wearing suits, of course they don't. But you wear suits at funerals. End of."

As soon as poor poor neglected granny died ( FIL mother), I took a beautiful black wool suit to the dry cleaners - it was even by de fault - MILs choice as it was FIL old suit she got him! And passed on. For DH to wear.

MIL tricked DH by saying " I have brought your DF a suit but it doesnt fit, would you like to try it?"

DH stupidly complies then she says " oohh it looks lovely, needs to be taken up but perhaps you could wear it to the funeral?"

DH says " no thanks I ALREADY HAVE A SUIT TO WEAR, THANKYOU".

There ensues the calls as above. " come and get your funeral suit"

MY DH was THE most beautifully turned out there out of the WHOLE family! He literally looked like a prince, almost like that king that abdicated with the camel coat looking smart! He is very attractive, tall and beautiful! He looked immaculate! Some of his uncles however turned up in jeans and cagulous and fleeces!

SIL on the other hand rolled up in a work suit looking like she had rolled out from under her desk, hair a mess etc...

ooo they don't like you at all do they.

It seems the uncle just thought it'd be nice if the DCs have a play and spend some time together and because you let your DD go to PIL's place, that's what he's happy to do, as he'd probably rather be spending time with his brother than his nephew & his wife.
You never know, maybe the weather will be nice enough to be outside and then there wouldn't be all the right cloth/wrong cloth, handbag in the wrong room problems.

It's quite normal to go through the parents, I see my uncle through my mum and catch up with my nieces/nephews through visits to my brother/sister.
The thing with your DH's extended family is that perhaps they don't realise the extent of the problem. They'll only know what they're being told by your DH's parents ....which is probably that you're a tricky so-and-so who won't go to their house.

(Without throwing diagnosies around too lightly) do you think MIL could have OCD?

"It seems the uncle just thought it'd be nice if the DCs have a play and spend some time together and because you let your DD go to PIL's place"

Yes he prob did think this - but WHY OH WHY then ask my DH when and where to meet then totally pretend to ignore two emails and text messages for the invite to our house. He was also staying with PILS for three days and was with other uncle - his bro three days before that. We live en route. If he had no intention of actually meeting where and when my DH suggested why bloody well ask!

He always used to treat DH in a jokey way like an overgrown harry enfield teenager....i imagine he thought he would get a macdonalds burger for lunch....and that it wouldnt be much fun....
I also understand why MIL wants to host at her house and have the children playing but unfortunalty - no one had the courtesy to ask my DH IF he would like to go to PILs. It was the way it was sort of ordered/told to him!

Yes i thikn they both have it - I think she is a deeply deeply unhappy woman, I used to have sympathy for her.

Both stop contact, and let them contact you and keep it on your terms. Or move. They are just desperate to control everything, like extending OCd to their child. I think you both need to back off from them, they obviously love the drama too. I also think the way they were with gGm and uncle comes across as if they have to control your access to other family members. If other family members refuse to have anything to do with you unless you go through PIL, then do not see them either.
Or you could get a muddy hyperactive dog, knock on their door and just let it loose.