To wonder why on earth you would not vaccinate your DCs?

[olimpia]

I hear from another thread that some people choose not to vaccinate their DCs at all and I'm genuinely interested to hear why because I can't think of a single reason not to. I can perhaps understand opting out of the MMR if someone believes the bad press (not that I do) but all the other vaccinations? Why, oh why?
(not a troll! Just relatively new to MN)

Personally, I could not live with the idea that some children have died or are suffering major disabilities just to increase the probability of me not catching a disease. Especially as they are so many other illnesses that I can catch where there is no vax available. _I prefer to accept that illness and dying is part of life.

Ok, Let's get rid of the whole vaccination programme and sit back and watch our children die like we did 60 years ago.

Why do you think we
have such an elderly population? It is not all to do with better nutrition and better sanitation. It is to do with prevention of life -threatening diseases and huge leaps forward in the understanding and treatment of, for example, Ischaemic heart disease, cancer and stroke.

If the anti-vaccine lobby out there had a child who was diagnosed with leukaemia, would they not be running to get treatment with chemotherapy for them; knowing that for many childhood leukaemias there is a very good prognosis and good chance of total recovery but also knowing that, for some, it will not work. One day we may have a vaccine against leukaemia. I bet they would be the 1st to go and get it for their subsequent DCs if that had been their experience. I prefer to accept that illness and dying is part of life._ fine if you are in your 70s/80s. Not so fine when you are 5 or 15...

It is a late20th/21st century, western indulgence to decide to opt out of immunisation. Take us back to 1900s and the reaction would be very different as we watched our children die and dread every illness because it could be their last.

Of course its immoral! My god, can you imagine exposing children to killer diseases when we have safe and effective vaccines in order to elucidate some possible and very rare side effect. Wow!

And there's zero biological reason that vaccines compromise the immune system. On average vaccinated children are healthier. It's bs that its good for the body to fight disease. Children do better when they're not sick. One of the main causes of child stunting in Africa is due not to poor nutrition but because children are exposed to a lot more infections.

I'm in the us, noone thinks chicken pox is a killer (even though it can kill) but I personally know many children who have ended up on hospital with compilations from chicken pox. So glad I can avoid this for my children. No hysteria needed.

It's true that if modern vaccines had been around when the elderly were kids, there would be a whole lot more of them. My eldest aunt died as a baby in 1917 from a vaccine preventable disease.

The main driver historically of the increase in life expectancy is the decrease in infant and child mortality due, in part, to vaccines

Umm, no, we have an elderly population because they lived through the war - before vaccines.

And during the war and the immediate post war years rationing ensured that everyone had a basically sound diet, if rather monotonous. Info here www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/9728.php

One of the main causes of child stunting in Africa is due not to poor nutrition but because children are exposed to a lot more infections.

Or the underlying poor nutrition means that they can't fight of the infections they are exposed to leading to stunting. And throw in the lack of good sanitation and clean drinking water to boot.

Oh yeah Lavolcan cos ppl that eat well don't get polio, tb, meningitis or tetanus?

Elaine - Killer diseases like rubella, you mean?

"Ok, Let's get rid of the whole vaccination programme and sit back and watch our children die like we did 60 years ago."

Is anyone actually suggesting that? Or are they saying "If you want to vaccinate your children go ahead, just don't tell me to vaccinate mine" ?

We obviously move in different circles leonie. The us is very big and there are educated and rational parts to it.

Volcan, poor nutrition and infections lead to stunting independent of one another as well as interacting with one another.

Oh yeah Lavolcan cos ppl that eat well don't get polio, tb, meningitis or tetanus?

TB for one, is I believe, acknowledged to be a disease of poverty so yes there is an argument for good nutrition. But nowhere have I said it's either/or. I cannot see why vaccination can't be offered but built on a foundation of sound nutrition.

I do question the sense of giving vaccinations for things like rubella to babies, when it cannot benefit them whatever, and may have worn off, without their realising it by the time they do need it.

LEONIE, I've read your well researched and argued threads on MN in the past. :) Tell me something - is it me or do you find that the pro-vax people are far more aggressive and rude than the anti-vax people on this sort of thread?

** Naturally I don't mean all of the pro-vax people are aggressive and rude. Just a far greater proportion than the anti-vax people. Sorry.

DS hasn't had MMR yet, he started showing food allergies when he was weaned and we now know he's allergic to egg and sesame. He also has hayfever and eczema. Some of this is inherited - I'm similar but I'm not sure all. When he was born he has massive doses of antibiotics as he swallowed meconium in the womb and I'm not sure his system got off to a good start.

I think the connection between antibiotics, vaccination and autoimmunity is under-researched and little understood. What are the long term effects? Nobody knows. We do know that autoimmune conditions are on the rise though. I for one, would like to know more before I subject my DS or any more DCs to the vaccination programme.

Silverfrog? What vaccine was it and what did it do?

You don't get it, do you?

I want DD to get rubella so that she will be immune for life. But she doesn't, because of this moronic policy of vaccinating babies for a disease that is only dangerous for them when pregnant

Well, I am sure that when there was no vaccine against rubella, informed mums would have wanted their DDs to catch rubella before they were likely to become pregnant. But it didn't always happen, did it? Hence rubella babies.

^Cecily, you are missing the point.
by saying that you think that all children should be vaccinated, regardless of circumstances, you know some will suffer terrible consequences from it.^

I don't think I said, regardless of circumstances. I am sure there are circumstances where vaccination is medically unadvisable and should be avoided. Surely, the only vaccine that children have that is of no benefit to themselves, is for boys (or girls who will never have children) to have the rubella vaccine.

I thought that was rather passive aggressive, graham tribe. Quite ironic!

Agree Elaine

Well, I am sure that when there was no vaccine against rubella, informed mums would have wanted their DDs to catch rubella before they were likely to become pregnant. But it didn't always happen, did it? Hence rubella babies.

I know that was the attitude of my parents old GP - he was firmly of the belief that you should go back to school to spread the disease around so that all would get it. I can see that that attitude could have been somewhat dangerous if you came into contact with pregnant women teachers, (I suspect he hadn't quite thought it through), but it absolutely mystifies me why we vaccinate babies against it.

Is it just that mothers of babies tend to go to the clinics so you 'catch' them more easily? What is the problem with vaccinating at school like they used to do?

^but it absolutely mystifies me why we vaccinate babies against it.

Is it just that mothers of babies tend to go to the clinics so you 'catch' them more easily? What is the problem with vaccinating at school like they used to do?^

It is to do with establishing herd immunity but I don't really know much about the theory behind the change. Maybe it was simply that babies are getting vaccinated anyway. Rubella isn't really an illness of infancy and was more common in later childhood/early adolescence. I know that when we were only vaccinating teenage girls; in the US, they were vaccinating 9-year-olds of both sexes.