Father-in-Law difficulties

[Minkymum]

Ok. Firstly I accept that I must be a bad person and I'm expecting to be slated here. But as I am here to learn, that's ok.

My father-in-law of many years drives me mad. He is an attention-seeker ( life and soul of the party-hospital dj-stylee), says desperately tactless and hurtful things, flirts inappropriately, plays family members off against each other then has massive sulks when he feels unappreciated, says nobody likes him and then attempts to buy friendship back with gifts and money. This is something I've never risen to as I think he could just be nice in the first place. Plus he flirts with me- euww.

Sadly, my very lovely MIL died recently. They had been together for a very long time and she stoicly bore the brunt of this behaviour, softening it for the rest of us. I must say he took care of her really admirably during a long, traumatic illness; something that surprised me, given his narcissistic tendencies. Once the funeral ( more of a variety performance with him as compere) was over he was all at sea.

During their marriage, she was his audience. Now she has gone he says we don't call him enough (husband calls him a couple of times a week) because his other DIL and son calls several times a day. Now the spotlight has been turned on to me. 'Why isn't she calling to check on me?". The thing is, I never did before. I'd regularly chat to my MIL because we had things in common and... well... I liked her. I don't like pretending but I don't want to be unkind either. To be honest, I'm not really a regular telephoner anyway; my family and friends are used to this now and know that even if I'm not in touch daily/weekly, I still love them. This is not going to be good enough for my FIL and it makes me very uncomfortable. Like I'm expected to fill the sympathetic woman role. I AM sympathetic, but there is something about him that makes me feel irrationally impatient. The thing is, for years I watched his behaviour upset my MIL and whilst he was there at the end when she needed him, he never put her interests first when she was well. Deep down I think, rightly or wrongly, that this constant stress made her ill. I think I feel a bit cornered. I'd like to feel full of love and compassion, but I don't. Somebody tell me the right thing to do.

Give the old bugger a call; seriously, there's a lot worse than him about. Has he ever interfered with or tried to cause trouble in your marriage? If not, then what exactly have you got against him? Was he abusive to your mil? If not, get in contact.

I'd give him a few calls to see how he his. Play the dutiful dil for a while, he'll move on.

I know you don't believe it, but he doesn't sound too bad to me.

Lots of people flirt, it's just their way. I bet you if you seriously responded he'd run a mile!

Thanks for your understanding ethelb. Interesting post. Also interesting that zillion pointed out that it's not contact he might be wanting, but attention. He does a funny thing where he engages your confidence, sets you up to be sympathetic and then pulls the rug out from under your feet by pretending nothings happened and that you are making a fuss about nothing. This is all very enlightening...

Shecot, I'm sure there are much worse. It's just that they aren't my FIL. And lots of people flirt, but that's not ok if it's your DIL you're flirting with. Even since my MIL died, on the few occasions I have been alone with him, within seconds he tells me that he's missing his wife and can he 'have a cuddle'. It's understandable but definitely not right. It makes me feel very, very uncomfortable.

Eeeuuuwww about looking for a cuddle!
If you feel it's not right, it probably isn't.
Tell him "Oh, I'll get DH to come in and give you a hug so!"

That sounds creepy. I wouldn't be happy at all if my FIL asked for a "cuddle". Fair enough if my dad asked for one, but then he'd probably ask for a "hug" which sounds less sexual than a cuddle which to me is a prolonged close type of hug that you give children and partners. I would hope my dad wouldn't need to ask for a hug though and I would just give him one.
I think some people are probably more huggy than others. I'm not a social kiss and cuddler so would feel uncomfortable if anyone other than my immediate family and close friends expected me to hug them. Again it does seem rather sexist that he is asking for a cuddle from his DIL and not his son.

"Give the old bugger a call" - couldn't have put it better myself. Think of it as doing it for your lovely MIL.

you don't need to cuddle him over the phone.

I don't know, Minkymum, it could be that he is just after a cuddle, is he touchy-feely? You see flirting is one thing, but it's now coming across as a bit sinister. As I say, if you feel that uncomfortable and sense there is more to it than a cuddle, then I wouldn't be alone with him.
It could be that you are sensing danger, but, equally, it could be that he is just after a cuddle.
Only you know the truth of this of how he has been in the past etc.
Nevertheless, a phone call requires no cuddling and all you have to do is make sympathetic noises over the phone.

For now, give him a phone call for the sake of your late mil, but if you continue to feel unsafe alone with him, then that's a much bigger problem.
The phone call though is a no-brainer.

I'm feeling very uncomfortable about that 'cuddle' word now....euwww... honestly maybe I should just drop him a card or something from all of us. The phone calls are a bit intense. I remember one skype conversation where he said, totally out of the blue, that he hoped that me and DH 'died at the same time so we didn't have to go on alone'. If not, then 'we'd know what it was like'. I didn't really know what to say so I pretended I'd dropped something on the floor and crawled away, leaving DH to salvage the situation. Cowardly, I know...

He emails us photos of himself with random women, grinning like a loon

I'm really shocked that he is hanging around with other women already , if I was DH I would be very hurt and insulted as to what that says about levels of respect. And tbh I would struggle not to mention that the next time he has a pop.

Yeah I understand he needs compassion, but 'looking after' ? he is a grown man and plus he is not your dad.

Shecot, no, I don't feel unsafe, I just think it's more that he's taking advantage of the situation and it's not just because he's feeling sad. He's not dangerous at all, just a bit lecherous. Once he said that he missed the touch of a woman, which at the time was undoubtedly true and very sad. Just not very appropriate to say it to your DIL that's all. Just puts me off him. Long ago, before my MIL got ill, he was always trying to pin me in corners of the kitchen and serenade me. It's just how he is and it's all a bit infantile, that's all. All part of being a show off. Perhaps it's difficult for a man to accept that a woman will be attracted to his son, but not remotely to him.

Would people be telling the poster to "give x a phone" if the poster was male and his MIL was demanding that HE phone her rather than her daughter phone her and asking for cuddles from him?
I really dislike the sexual stereotyping that says that wifeys should be dutiful DILs and phone their inlaws regularly even when their spouses are alive and able to phone their family themselves.
Why are you ordering Minkymum to phone her FIL rather than ordering her husband to do it?
It is all a bit sexist and "women have nothing better to do than to phone demanding relatives where as the poor men work hard and are busy"

thebackson -He can't bear the idea of being alone. My MIL was a domestic goddess. He's rich and healthy and available. The merry widows are flocking. Good luck to them. DH knows his mum can't be beaten, but he knows his dad can't cope without a wife.

To be honest, I'd forget the photos thing, they are neither here nor there.
Serenade you? Lol. Sorry but it sounds so funny. I don't know if your fil is a harmless loon or something a bit more sinister.

Give him the benefit of the doubt for now by playing it safe and getting in contact. But if you feel freaked out by him when alone, well that's something I think you've got to share with your dh.

Who's ordered Minky to phone her FIL???

This is nothing to do with Sexism!

Minky - he sounds delightful, I cant imagine he will be on his own for long! He does sound sad I have to admit, but he also sounds like a bit of an arse! Think you just need to leave him to your DH.

It's not sexist at all. Minkymum thought a lot of her mil and should do it for her sake.

To be the better person. But then I draw the line at being with him if he freaks her out. A phone call, though, well no harm can come from that.

I would think that he is feeling all sorts of emotions at the moment and if he was always a lech, then losing his wife isn't going to make him any less of one. In fact, it might make him feel even more entitled to behaving like that. Grief can make some people behave in odd ways, but it should never be an excuse for bad behaviour.

He must really miss his wife, especially as you say she was so lovely & wonderful. And so must you, your DH and the rest of your family. Death is shit and the ripples reach far. I hope your FIL can find the grace to realise that although his wife's death doubtless has most impact on his life, other people feel her loss just as much as he does.

If you feel able, call him sometimes (but not several times a day!). Just to say hi and ask how he is. Listen, make sympathetic noises and after a few minutes make your excuses. It's just a few minutes of your time and it won't last for long. I have a feeling he's going to be distracted by a new woman in his life in no time at all. Probably best not to judge this (everyone is different, and it is his life alone to lead), but at least it will give him something to occupy himself with and take the attention away from you.

Why should she phone him rather than her husband though? And why does whether or not she liked her dead MIL affect whether or not she should phone her FIL? I really don't see the logic in this.
My husband got on well with my mum when she was alive, but he doesn't phone my dad, I do. He'd probably phone him if I was dead, but I'm not dead and perfectly capable of phoning my own father so don't need my husband to do it for me. I don't see how my husband would be doing my dead mum any favours by phoning my dad rather than me phoning him.
This issue is all about sexism and gender expectations.

Cross posts.

There is something about widowers (and this is going to come across as generalised sexism, but I don't mean it to be)....they seem to need a woman in their lives more than widows need a man. I know so many women who have been widowed in their 40s or younger and who, 20 or 30 years on, have never had another relationship. The widowers I know have all go on to have very serious relationships within 6-12 months of their wives dying.

Not really sure of what my point is

Pollydecker you sound wise to me.

thebackson -He can't bear the idea of being alone. My MIL was a domestic goddess. He's rich and healthy and available. The merry widows are flocking. Good luck to them. DH knows his mum can't be beaten, but he knows his dad can't cope without a wife.

Hmm he's showing his true colours isn't he? he's playing the 'oh I'm so sad and pathetic card' but is happy enough to be messing around with other women as soon as his dear wife and mother of his children hits the ground, I find that really upsetting, he's not even pretending to be a decent human being.

Polly - I do agree.

I just dont think men are designed to be on their own.....I am not being sexist before someone accuses me of that, its just my observations. My dad would love already to have someone else, but more for company really than anything selse. However, if my mum had outlived my dad I doubt she would have been interested in another relationship, she would have made us kids, her grandkids, her friends and her many hobbies her life, she wouldnt have had time for a man!

2rebecca - I'm not ordering her to phone her FIL instead of her DH doing so, I'm suggesting she does it in addition to her DH. So her grieving FIL gets double the phone calls and might take comfort in that.

Minky - my stepFIL is fond of cuddles and I think he's just a genuinely affectionate man whereas I only really like cuddling DH, DD and the dog so I understand you being uncomfortable but a phone call does not involve physical contact.

Wise? Me? Ooh, thank you Minky

Backson, I do understand what you are saying, but grief is a really, really complex thing and it is entirely possible for someone to be grieving for the loss of their loved one as well as wanting/needing companionship with somebody else. The two things are not mutually exclusive.