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AIBU?

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To approve of a German courts decision re circumcision

618 replies

SlipperyNipple · 29/06/2012 10:33

Apologies if this has already been covered.

I am Jewish by descent but an an agnostic. I think the time has come to say that being religious is not an excuse to carry out mutilation of small boys.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish?newsfeed=true

Obviously Female circumcision is already illegal but the same protection should be given to boys.

OP posts:
waterlego6064 · 02/07/2012 18:04

I think there has been some sound debate on this thread but nothing anyone has said has convinced me that it's ok to do this to an infant who has no say in the matter.

WavingLeaves · 02/07/2012 18:08

Do the Royal Family really circumcise their boys? I wonder what their reasoning is.

waterlego6064 · 02/07/2012 18:12

I don't think Harry or William were done as infants because their mother didn't want it done.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 02/07/2012 18:16

You can't centre a Prince Albert properly on an uncircumcised penis. That'll be it.

waterlego6064 · 02/07/2012 18:24

Re Royal family- maybe a class thing. Apparently circ was popular in the UK after WWII but only the wealthier families could afford to have a Dr attend a baby's birth and do the operation afterwards. According to several anecdotes I've just read, it is still common in public schools to see lots of circumcised boys.

BertieBotts · 02/07/2012 19:02

They are strapped down in US hospitals. Google "circumstraint". I wish I was being hysterical!

Primafacie · 02/07/2012 19:48

FFS, they are restrained so they can't move, this has nothing to do with the pain. My newborn son had to be restrained for an x ray - is this ok, or was that also child abuse?

Deny it all you want, but the overwhelming practice in the US, Africa and elsewhere, is to use one or several forms of pain relief (most often topical and local or ring block).

blondieminx · 02/07/2012 20:40

Yanbu!

Well done that court! Wish ours here in the UK would make a similar ruling.

VanCampsPorknBeans · 02/07/2012 21:13

As I said before, I do not have a DS it but seems others who have circumcised their DS say it's quick and painless. One poster describes her DS's circumcision as such: "My kids didn't react anymore to their circumcision than they did to vaccinations." Read the discussion for yourself:
www.urbanbaby.com/talk/posts/54574812

TraceyWasALoner · 02/07/2012 22:01

I live in Canada, am married to a (circumcised as a newborn) Canadian man and my two boys are both circumcised. I've never heard of anyone having it done here without anaesthetic (seriously?) and I've never heard of anyone having a "botched" procedure. This is probably because it's always done by a GP or paediatrician, in-surgery, by someone that has performed thousands of circumcisions. It's done very quickly and neatly and my boys were healed in a matter of days. I was present when my boys had it done and I've also watched those awful YouTube videos and can honestly say they bear no relation to our experience. My sons now don't have to do anything in the way of special penis hygiene and after watching my two nephews suffer very painful (and embarrassing) infections as tweens (one had to be circumcised at 10), I feel comfortable with our decision. I can understand how it's not for everyone but I'm glad we had the choice. I'm willing to bet that the majority of anti-circumcision posters are also pro-lifers.

Fyi: Babies are restrained. It's so they don't move too much during the 20 second procedure. I'm sure you can imagine why that would be important...

Primafacie · 02/07/2012 22:07

Hi Tracey! Fellow Canadian here! :)

IloveJudgeJudy · 02/07/2012 22:22

I am anti-circumcision, but definitely not pro-life.

TraceyWasALoner · 02/07/2012 22:25

Hello Prima Smile. Happy Canada Day!

Krumbum · 02/07/2012 22:47

I'm pro choice and against circumcision.
I think you should have the choice whether to have a child or not but if you do choose to Have the child I don't think you should be allowed to abuse that child by cutting them Up just cos ya feel like it!

lisaro · 02/07/2012 22:50

That's a very large leap. Tracy with no justification - just as little justification in fact as there is for mutilating a child.

waterlego6064 · 02/07/2012 23:05

I am pro-choice and anti-circumcision.

Penises with foreskins don't require 'special penis hygiene', just washing it is fine, just as most women manage to clean their bits without difficulty.

WavingLeaves · 02/07/2012 23:11

"I'm willing to bet that the majority of anti-circumcision posters are also pro-lifers."

Why? Confused

babybarrister · 02/07/2012 23:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sashh · 03/07/2012 03:40

Ugh .... Most men in the UK are uncircumcised? How gross!

No actually it isn't, and I much prefer a foreskin when I'm having sex.

Actually most men in the world are not circumcised.

suziez · 03/07/2012 05:43

I worked in America where routine, non religious, circumcision of little boys was carried out, on request, for hygiene reasons. One of the doctors would ask the parents if he should take off the baby's finger tips too, so he did not get dirty nails when he grew up!

Trills · 03/07/2012 08:18

Gross? To have all the parts you were born with? No, no it isn't.

VolAuVent · 03/07/2012 08:29

Pro-choice and anti-circumcision here too.

SlipperyNipple · 03/07/2012 08:34

babybarrister The thread has made me think quite a bit. I started off about as anti circumcision as you could get but the points about the spread of AIDS in some countries has made me reassess my position.

I still think it is a painful needless procedure in the west but if I was a mother in South Africa I may consider it. However using condoms would be the far better approach, with cultural changes that gave women more empowerment and work that dealt with the high rates of rape.

I still think that there are far too many people who just do it because it is the norm and they have never really thought about it. I know a few Jews who do not follow any other parts of the faith and yet they do this. I am just so gob smacked by this. Why this bit when you don't believe in god?

I think the cleanliness angle is very weak. Just teach your child to wash. Brushing your teeth is much more difficult than giving a willy a wash and yet we all do that.

Yes rarely an older child or adult will have to have it done because of problems but as somebody else said (or I think they said) we don't remove all tonsils at 8 days because people may get a lot of sore throats later in life.

Personally I like the look of an uncircumcised penis....but that is all about what you are used to. I read one website where a father was talking about reasons for circumcising his sons and he said he wanted them to look the same as him. I am left speechless by that. Fucking selfish bastard. You should be thinking about them not yourself you twat.

OP posts:
SlipperyNipple · 03/07/2012 08:39

Oh yes also pro choice and anti-circumcision here too. Tracey I think that was a very silly thing to say. Absolutely no justification for your point that I can see. I think you just want to see all anti circumcision posters as different to yourself but actually we are normal intelligent women who have thought about the issue and come to this position.

OP posts:
MousyMouse · 03/07/2012 08:45

pro-choice/anti-circumcision is only logical imo.

after all it gives the child the choice to do with his body what he needs/wants at a time when he can make an informed choice.