Or is husband re mortgages?

[MrsHelsBels74]

We're in the very enviable position of not having a mortgage on our property BUT we do have substantial credit card, loans etc. We have also got plans to significantly improve the house we've just moved into, such as loft conversion, converting the front garden into parking as our road is a nightmare. Husband talks about doing all this in the near future.

We don't have any savings so the only way we can afford to do this is if we consolidate our debt & borrow more against our house. Overall we'd be borrowing a very small percentage of the equity.

Anyway, my husband feels that mortgages are the work of the devil & that the minute you miss a payment your house will be repossessed. I think this stems from his parents not having a mortgage & his father is very anti-mortgage. The house isn't 100% in our names & I wonder if his father's reluctance to let us have the house in our names is a way to prevent us borrowing against the house.

I, on the other hand, have had mortgages & don't see a problem with them.

The only way we can afford the refurbishments is to hope for an inheritance from our parents & frankly that seems a little ghoulish...I don't want any of them to die in the near future.

So, apologies for the length, but who is BU or is it both of us?

What a mess. I agree your fil sounds like a control freak.

I would pay off your debts, and save for your own home as I suggested earlier.

its one of those things that sounds wonderful and great but if your not FREE, its not so great, sometimes owing money to a bank in terms of mortgage gives you more freedom and autonomy and happiness than having your castle built on sand..being in the grip of family control.

This has got me thinking a lot. Husband won't agree to buy out his brother because MORTGAGES ARE EVIL. End of discussion in his eyes. Hence why I started this thread!
But I'm wondering if it would be possible to get some sort of legal document drawn up that states FILs intentions regardless of when he does them. Does anyone know if this is feasible?

My husband, bless him, is totally in the clouds regarding his family. When I expressed my concerns over what would happen if we split up he said 'you're family now & whatever happened between up, they would always treat you fairly'. Now I'm pretty sure this isn't normal, I know when I've asked my folks their instinct is immediately to protect me & my son, & husband is way down the list....and surely this is how it should be?

I an totally lost on who owns what and who is living where, but I couldn't live like this. I think you would be better renting elsewhere you have no real security, if FIL owns part it could be needed for care home fees, if he dies what about inheritance tax? Does capital gains tax apply as he owns bits of 3 properties?

There is no way in your position i would take on more debt and I would be giving my DH an ultimatum that either you owned the house jointly as husband and wife or that you would move out. I could never feel safe like this.

I think the idea of mortgages/renovations is a red herring right now, when all you should be doing is consolidating/freezing your debts/tranferring to 0% interest card, cutting up your credit cards and paying off the debts you already have.

If you're only paying the minimum payments on your card then you'll never be out of debt/able to pay them off. :(

its not even if you split up - its if the brothers fall out - could be very nasty and even the closest siblings fall out...its a very tentative situation. It seems to me that the attitude to you - is that you are lukcy and should be grateful and thats as far as any concerns regarding you go.

Its lovely that your Dh trusts his family, so he should but you need to somehow seperate proper security for you and his children, and offending his bro and dad some how by thinking it will seem like he doesnt trust them. Your his wife - the mother of his children - making you secure should be his priorty.

I can totally understand its not a worry for him, as its his family he thinks he is secure...but what about you?

i wonder if you can visit a solicitor together to talk through all the worse case scenarios and let him hear from a solicitor what might happen....and how it would affect you....and him.

This sounds like legal nightmare but what would worry me at the moment is the fact that despite not having the substantial outgoing that most do (i.e. mortgage payments) you're still struggling.

What would you be doing if you didn't have this house to live in? What does your DH think about that?

Having been married to someone who sounds a little similar I would be having a big chat about financial expectations and take your cue from his responses. It might also be worth calculating how much interest you've accrued on your loans/credit cards over the last few years and comparing them to mortgage interest.

Good luck with this though, it sounds like a nightmare!

Are you the one who is responsible for running up the credit card bills and loans?
Who is responsible for paying them off?
Are the loans and credit card bills in joint names?
I'm wondering whether you have all the financial responsibility without any security.
Why are you paying all the childcare bills and why do you not have any money left over to pay off your debts?
And as for his family looking after you should you split, it doesn't look likely if they are not prepared to look after your interest now.

Having no mortgage on the property isn't an "enviable position" to be in if the property isn't actually in your names. Who owns it? The owner will surely benefit from any improvements to the property, whereas you can neither sell it, nor benefit from the full proceeds when it is sold.

Hmm OP - I think sometimes in situations like these it helps if you reverse the situation. Your dh may be entirely sure his family would treat you fairly in the event of a split (although IMHO this is an extremely naive view) but would he feel secure if he were the one living in a home owned by your father? I bet a mortgage in his name would seem less evil if this were the situation. I personally would sort this situation asap!

"Husband won't agree to buy out his brother because MORTGAGES ARE EVIL. End of discussion in his eyes."
Hmm. Well, some people (and even some religions) believe that making money (interest) from lending money is immoral - but you say you have substantial credit card/loan debt, so this cannot be at the root of his attitude. So, indoctrination by his (controlling) dad coupled with a lack of curiosity as to how the world actually works does seem the most likely explanation.

It sounds to me as if your finances are seriously fucked up. You do not have the major outgoing of mortgage or rent, but you still have substantial debts. How did those debts come about? I ask because there's a big difference between having e.g. been made redundant the week before your car broke down and the boiler needed replaced, and habitually living beyond your means with takeaways and designer clothes. One is a temporary situation that you can claw your way back from, the other requires a major rethink of how you live.

Frankly, your financial position is precarious - you are at the mercy of father-son and fraternal relationships. I would start by sitting down with your husband to plan your debt repayments, because that should be your priority for now. I doubt you could mortgage the property given its shared ownership, so let that lie for the moment. You need to acclimatise your husband to financial responsibility first. But by no means should you let this weird setup continue forever, it must be addressed at some point.

It is all aload of pie in the sky anyway

You have substantial credit card/loan debt so unlikely to get a mortgage in any event so how are you going to buy the brother out even if both parties wanted to?
You are just scraping by making min repayments of your debt so you cant afford to say sod it and buy your own property or rent elsewhere.

Until you sort your debt then you have no other option but to accept things the way they stand as you dont have the money to do anything else.

Just as an afterthought I was wondering what people considered 'substantial debt'. We owe about £10k which is why borrowing against the house would be a minor percentage of the equity & repayments would be minimal on that amount.

I think my husband's main problem with secured borrowing is the fact that your house can be repossessed. I do keep trying to point out that this is generally a last resort but he won't hear of it & seems to think you'll lose your house the second you miss one repayment. I can see his point to a certain extent but I really can't see why he is SO paranoid about it.

I think 10k is alot - I wouldnt like to have 10k on our cards.

The thing is - with your mortgage being with a bank, as its not personal I would say in your situ - as mad as it sounds, its safer than having it in the hold of the other brother.

In a worst case scenario - the other brohter wants the house back - and simply moves in adn changes locks - legally what can you do about that> he owns half of it?

I think he sounds very selfish if you ask me, as someone else said would he be this happy if all this power was in YOUR hands and your families hands rather than his?

The roof over your head is a huge factor in anyones life, it doesnt sound secure to me....your Dh isnt worrying much about you right now - so whats he gonna do again in a worse case scenario if you do break up?

its all smug and great for them to own all these properties but you are his wife now.

10k would be a lot for us to be in debt. But it's all relative. If someone earns over 100k a year, then it's not so much. How have the debts accrued? Car? Holidays? Essential spending etc? As others have said, I'd be looking at my outgoings and using what would normally be spent on rent/mortgage, use that to clear the debts first.

IMO you shouldn't be thinking about taking any more debt in any form.

Sounds like the whole family need to get together, work out how they want the properties to be owned and by whom, how inheritance should be dealt with and then put the whole thing in the hands of a solicitor.

As for taking out a secured loan to do home improvements, IMHO that's one of the few legitimate reasons for doing so. What you spend doing a place up usually appears pretty quickly in the value of the property. However, if you've run up loans and debts even without having a mortgage to pay, any form of consolidation is potentially risky unless you can operate within a tight budget.

Have you seen the deeds ?

This seems like a nightmare. Could you suggest BiL and DH sell both houses (having agreed a fair split of the proceeds) and each buy your own properties? Clean slate and all that.

As far as I can see the debt has been accrued because they were living in one property and paying bills there while also paying for renovations and bills at the other property, which they now live in.

Yes, a mortgage would mean the monthly repayments are lower but generally spread over a longer period of time than an unsecured personal loan.

A mortgage at this time is irrelevant anyway as DH's brother owns half of the house you live in. Does he contribute at all to the upkeep, decorating etc? If not you're paying for it all and he will benefit if/when the house is sold. Even the renovations you have already done will have increased the market value so if you did want to buy him out and he insisted on the current market value you'll have actually made it more expensive for yourselves.

Go and see a solicitor, either alone or with your DH to find out legally what your options are. You're not "lucky" because you live in a mortgage free home, you live in a house that is half owned by your bil and your dh equally and you have no legal right at all to live there.

Oh and your FIL has got F-all to do with it, it's not his house.

10K is a lot of debt. Reduce it first before considering a mortgage.

To me 10k is a hell of a lot of debt. I have never had any debts except for my mortgage but I look on that totally differently for some reason !
I now owe approx £14,000 on my mortgage and my monthly payments are £58 but am obviously over paying to clear it quicker.
So I suppose my debt is bigger but I'll be paying a lot less interest than you are on your loans.

I'm ashamed to admit it but the debt was accrued partly due to our wedding...we just got carried away with plans, and the rest was me not mentally adjusting to being on reduced maternity pay.

We do try now to live within our means & haven't put anything on any credit cards for months, if not years. So we are vaguely reducing our debt, but it's slow going & difficult to constantly juggle between 0% interest cards, which we've tried to do but this doesn't work indefinitely.

I know the legalities of the house we're now in are nothing to do with FIL, that's what I find so frustrating.

BIL isn't married & isn't likely to want to sell the place in the near future as he's going to be moving into property B soon. But I know you can never rely on anyone remaining reasonable & that's why I wish it was all legal & above board.

I dont know if he has been married before but you need to get him to mentally catch up with the fact he has his own unit and family now - and that his own family - you and his children are/must be the priority - the same for his DP.

it may take some adjusting - it sounds like its a kennedy family compound thing....softly soflty catch ye monkey you may even be seen as suspicous - for wanting things to be legal and above board or that you arnt anything to do with it all.

make sure your arguments are simple and clear.

you are his wife nad you have to wedge yourself in- they arnt going to do it for you - clearly .

Really hope you get it sorted having been homless before.