Tx tell my friends XP about her comments re parental alienation last night?

[MagicLlamaStrikesBack]

Went to my friends last night for a few drinks for her birthday. She doesnt drink ever alot so she was quite pissed merry.

We were chatting about my dick of an XP, who (if you dont know the history) now has no contact with the DSs after a long contact fight which resulted in no contact. Her and her XP are also in court over contact.

Basically long story short, she confessed that she was deliberately alientating the DCs against their dad, and said she was hoping for an outcome similar to mine, where her XP walked away after being unhappy with the court verdict.

I am fucking furious. Yes my XP walked away, but the emotional crap that has left both my DC (one is not his but viewed him as a dad) with is substantial and she is choosing to do it

I am debating telling her XP, so that he knows what he is up against, but then he has been emotionally abusive to her and so maybe this is just her lashing out and she will calm down and stop being such a cow.

So should I tell him? Or does my friendship with her (15 years) come first?

Can you not just say to her that you think what she's doing is shit? If you've been friends for that long surely you should be able to tell her how you feel?

'...he has been emotionally abusive to her..'

So her xp could've done the same to her kids as yours has to you?

You can't possibly know the ins and outs of their relationship. I would stay well out of it if I were you.

I would say nothing to be honest at least not to him. Nobody will thank you for it. You will lose a friend, she will deny it, and the kids may suffer further.

All you can do is (when she isnt pissed as it could just have been the drink talking anyway) is talk sensibly with her, and explain that her kids have a right to a relationship with their Dad if possible.

The courts will not stop him from seeing his children if there is no good reason for doing so.

I would stay quiet. She is more than likely hurt and lashing out. I am assuming he is a good father otherwise I doubt you would be as fuming so leave it for the courts to decide. She can want, but it doesn't mean she will get.

Wickety, is he has been emotionally abusive to his kids by disrespecting her in front of them (which we have no idea is happening) then she is also emotionally abusing her children by doing exactly the same (which is what the OP says her friend has admitted to).

Yet, according to you, what she's doing is fine but what he's doing is so bad that he deserves to be pushed out of the childrens' lives.

Why the double standards?

I am thinking of talking to her, and trying to explain that regardless of what he has done to her, the kids deserve to know him if possible.

I have been there for most of the crap hes dished out to her, not in person as we are miles away from each other, but on the phone etc and I do suspect she just wants him out of her life as hes a bit of a controlling cunt.

But her kids are 8 and 9 and do adore their father, and as far as I know and she has never said otherwise he has been a decent father if a twatish husband. She basically said last night, that she is worried they will choose to go and live with him if they continue to see him and as she doesnt want that because hes such a dick its better if they dont see him at all.

I suspect I should butt out, ive just being stewing on it all night! Deliberately setting out to turn them against him just seems wrong.

She thinks if they go and live with him because he hates her and is a dick he will turn them against her, so she wants to get in first basically.

Have a sensible conversation with her where you point out how damaged your children have been by the lack of contact with their father - she may be taking a selfish view where she thinks it will be easier for her, or she may think she's doing the children a favour. You've been there - tell her the downside of what she is doing. Maybe she thinks you're happy with the outcome and doesn't see the wider issue?

If you'd have liked someone to have interfered and caused you problems in your own court battle then go ahead. If you think it remotely possible that as an outsider to the relationship you're not party to all of the facts then you should keep out of it - for your sake as much as the couple and DC's.

She may have very good reason for wanting him out of the DC's lives. Even if she doesn't in your opinion it has nothing to do with you.

It sounds like drink talking, and her lashing out. In the cold sober light of day she probably (hopefully) will admit that she would be wrong to do this.

If he is a controlling bastard and has been emotionally abusive to her, she is also possibly scared that he IS going to try and take the kids from her, but that isnt likely to happen, and she really cannot stop him seeing them if he is a good dad to them.

I suspect this is a fairly new and raw breakup?

Your friend sounds like a selfish bitch to me. A crap partner does not indicate a crap father, and this woman has no right to deny her children their Father. My Dad wasnt perfect, but he was still my Dad and I am so thankful that my Mum always put my needs before her own convenience when it came to my Dad.

When I was splitting with my ex I could easily have hurled (truthful) EA accusations at him. He could probably have found a good case against me too. People aren't at their best during the breakup of their biggest relationship. But he's a wonderful Dad and my dc and I would be much worse off without him in our lives.

If he hates her, then it is probably for a good reason.

I will butt out then. Im going to text her and see if she wants to meet for lunch before I drive back home and I might try and raise the subject with her then.

Obviously no I dont know all the ins and outs of their relationship, I only know what shes told me and my own observations of him the few times ive seen him.

Its nasty and messy but in a nutshell
They split up 9 months ago when she found out about an affair. She moved out to her parents with the DCs. Her XP immediately filed for a shared residency order. Theyve been arguing it out ever since. She raised concerns and offered supported contact supervised by mutual friends. He refused initially then accepted he saw them for 3 months and now has refused again since friend wont increase contact and hasnt seen them for 3 months. They are waiting for a CAFCASS report.

Friend basically said shes been using the last 3 months to show the DCs how unkind and scarey her XP is and how much happier everyone is now that hes not seeing them. She said that she tells them that she will always keep them safe from him, and that if they go he might never allow them to come back. She said that she cries when they mention him. She says the youngest is already saying they dont want to see him.

I dont know - i know she knows that trying to turn them against him is wrong, but she seems to think its the right thing to do and she obviously was in the relationship so maybe shes right.

and she I obviously

oh fgs

she seems to think its the right thing to do and she obviously was in the relationship and I wasnt so maybe shes right

So he's using the kids as a control thing and she's had enough and just wants him out of it? CAFCASS wouldn't have only agreed to supervised visits unless there was good reason in the first place.

She does need to stop trying to turn the kids against their dad. They will suss it all out in time and realise he's a twat for themselves, if he can't be bothered to continue contact unless it's on his terms.

I don't blame her for wanting him out of their lives though.

Is it possible that perhaps she hasn't told you the compleate story?
It's a shite thing to do without good reason but equally as such you may not be privvey to all the info.
To the poster up thread who couldn't possibly be friends with so
eone who did this, do you know the whole suituation of all your friends and do your friends know your so rigidly judgemental?

Perhaps you could talk to her about how it has effected your children whilst accepting that just because you may not know exactly why she's doing it she may have a very good reason.

Emotional abuse can be just as bad as physical abuse people who do this mostly don't stop and it can involve children and children do get used as a way to further abuse an ex no matter who the ex is.

I don't think you can be a crap spouse and a good parent - the two things are connected to me. A good parent doesn't cheat on their spouse and emotionally abuse them, because those things are damaging to the very children they profess to love.

While I think those children have a right to know their dad, if that's deemed to be in their best interests by the court (once they are in possession of all the facts about his behaviour), I think you will do more harm than good by interfering. You won't affect the outcome - if anything you will make him up his campaign against her (and she is the victim, in this marriage). You will lose a friendship, and for what? To help a man who doesn't deserve to be helped.

She might be right - these kids may well do better without him in their lives. You are not in a position to say.

What do you hope to achieve by telling her xp 'what he's up against'?

As hes a bit of a controlling cunt all you'll achieve is to give him the impetus to up the ante in the battle for the hearts and minds of the dc by dishing out more of the same 'crap' he's given your friend over the years.

Are you willing to lose your friend when she discovers that you've betrayed her confidences?

Emotionally abusive men a rarely 'a bit' controlling; they tend to be wholly controlling and I wonder if you're prepared for the possibility that he may subpoena you to give evidence against your friend in any Court proceedings relating to the dc?

If you want to be a good friend, encourage her to express her innermost fears and talk them them through secure in the knowledge that what's said in the room, or on the telephone as the case may be, stays in the room.

Some friend you are!
Whatever she said to you she said in confidence - drunk or not, and it doesn't give you the right to start meddling in her divorce.
I agree that parental alienation is an awful thing to do but you should tell her you disagree with what she is doing and leave it there.

You sound likea lovely friend, and very thoughtful too.

If I were you I'd talk to her, definitely not the ExP. Explain that your situation may seem to have some benefits, but that the pain your DCs have gone through isn't worth it.

I would keep right out of it. If he is a controlling type and treated her cruelly then what on earth would you want to give him ammunition for?

I think she is letting off steam with you because she trusts you and what she will actually do is probably a lot less dramatic than what she says. I let my friends rant and rave and get things out of their system and it goes no further. I think you need to be able to do that with real friends.

Only thing I would do in your shoes is tell her that your dc are suffering from the lack of contact, that you are sad about it and wish in a way it could have been resolved differently.