To find Miliband's today statement about "getting it wrong" outrageous

[olimpia]

Absolutely infuriating! Eastern Europeans often do jobs that English people don't want because they involve night shifts e.g. the foodndustry or looking after the elderly.
Eastern Europeans are NOT on the same footing as British people when it comes to benefits so they can't even be said to be a "burden" on society. (before someone contradicts me on this I just want to say that I work in this field so I know a thing or two about benefits for foreign nationals).
It's a disgrace that Miliband felt the need to apologise for this.

Because a lot of them are in prison or on the streets and are not contributing to society.

I think people have gone some way to explaining that already.

You just don't want to hear it.

Every other EU country other than Ireland restricted movement from the 2004 accession countries into their own.

Were they all wrong to do so?

Large movements of people into a country have implications for infrastructure, for housing, for education.

Was that adequately planned for?

Or were the people who would be most affected by the influx of people, the ones who would live next to them, share their localities, have their area changed beyond recognition overlooked so that cheap labour could be imported from abroad.

At the time this was going on the UK was fighting the Temporary Agency Workers directive to make sure the people that came could be exploited as fully as possible.

Not true. Freedom of movement is one of the pillars of the EU and member states can't derogate i.e. prevent or restrict eu nationals coming to Britain to work or British nationals going abroad to work.
What member states can do is to limit access to benefits or housing for a while, for example. This is what the UK chose to do with A8 and A2 nationals and it was right to do so.
You are misinformed.

The fact EU workers are willing to do the same jobs for less money is myth. They're not dumb, you know. Even if it was true, it would not necessarily be a bad thing for small businesses struggling in the current economic climate.

Freedom of movement is all well and good but when it happens to the extreme benefit of some countries and the extreme detriment of others, then questions have to be asked surely?

There are no "jobs english people don't want to do". There are jobs english people don't want to do for minimum wage.

Olimpia you're blinkered, and haven't got any sense of what is going on in today's working class society.

The people who declaim immigrants for taking jobs are the same people who allowed the export of our manufacturing industry to Eastern Europe and then the Far East.

The fact EU workers are willing to do the same jobs for less money is myth.
Utter rubbish. It's basic economics. Supply and demand. Increase the supply and the price decreases. Try telling someone in the building trade that immigration hasn't depressed wages and you will get short shrift. Not to mention retail, and plenty of other unskilled and semi-skilled jobs.

Surely an employer should be able to employ the best person for the job regardless of where they come from ?

The fact EU workers are willing to do the same jobs for less money is myth. They're not dumb, you know. Even if it was true, it would not necessarily be a bad thing for small businesses struggling in the current economic climate.

Hmm - yes and no. I did a story on this a few years back (pre-financial crisis). I spoke to a Polish guy who'd settled here and had a flat, mortgage and children - he was being undercut by people who were doing what he used to do - live in a house of multiple occupancy with many shared bedrooms so having practically no rent / overheads, and therefore able to charge much less.

No, I am not misinformed. I was working for the EU at the time.

Member states were allowed to put temporary measures in place to limit the movement from the 10 2004 accession states.

The UK elected not to do so.

"Surely an employer should be able to employ the best person for the job regardless of where they come from?"

I'm not sure that argument makes sense for unskilled workers.

In that case employers will hire the cheapest worker, regardless of where they come from.

And that creates costs for the rest of us.

Don't you see through this?

Ed is in opposition. he doesn't have to do anything difficult, like actually restrict the freedom of movement that is part of deal with the EU, or find suitable Uk citizens to fill the large holes in NHS staffing that there used to be before non-EU immigration filled them.

it was fine when labour was in power though.

making this statement attracts back the would-be BNP voter to the Labour fold. Come back Gillian Duffy all is forgiven - that's what this says!

the actual thing he proposes - banning recruitment agencies that have mostly foreigners - is really stupid.

the two agencies i have worked with that would qualify - one is an NHS approved supplier of consultant-level grades, the other provides interpreters.

I say it again : Stupid. playing politics.

The people who declaim immigrants for taking jobs are the same people who allowed the export of our manufacturing industry to Eastern Europe and then the Far East.
No they aren't.

"outraged" your statement is worrying...has the press brainwashed people enough to believe that the freedom of movement is "all good" for Poland and "all bad" for the UK or are you just very naive?

I have recruited staff from a number of different countries - the salary is shown in the advert and doesn't have anything to do with where they come from. I advertise initially in the UK but if no suitable candidate comes forward, I advertise through Europe and Asia

Employers do take advantage of cheap labour. I worked in low paid jobs with illegal hours and shifts but could never say anything as i knew there were 50 others (usually migrant workers not 100% of the time though ofcourse) that would step in and do my job and not complain about what was happening.

edgar agree

Edgar Allen has a point. Miliband is a twerp. Its easy for himn to sit here ansd say NOW, oh we made a big mistake.
And what are you actually going to DO about it ?
Fine the recruitment agencies, Oh pluuurlese. The guy is such a twonk, isn't he?
Seriously, what can actually be DONE?

oi that's not the point though, is it? If your employer was wrong to exploit its workers regardless of the Eastern Europeans who would put up with it.

it is much easier paperwork wise to stick with UK-only citizens for any employer -

doubly so if you consider the mountain of paperwork involved in Non-EU recruitment.

there is no favourable bias towards Non-UK - the opposite if anything.

"the actual thing he proposes - banning recruitment agencies that have mostly foreigners - is really stupid."

Yes, that does sound very stupid.

We should just leave the EU.

No i suppose not i was just pointing it out to people who had started mentioning cheap labour and Eastern Europeans working harder/being more willing and saying that British people didnt want/wouldnt do those jobs.

Every time this argument comes about, the people on the opposing side are always labelled and racist, or as Edgar said BNP would be's. The only reason you say that is because it's such a bloody easy phrase to throw around when someone doesn't agree with you concerning immigration.

Not one of you have adknowledged the fact that there simply aren't enough jobs. Also, not one of you have acknowledged 2 of us saying we couldn't get a better deal at work because there were migrant workers willing to step right into our shoes. This says that we British are getting a crap deal.

I know a lot of people struggling to get into work. There are not enough jobs for the people we have here already, without more flooding in. It needs to be policed more, instead of basically an open door policy that companies can take advantage of.