to think not folding a buggy to make way for a wheelchair user on a bus is despicable?

[Zara1984]

Just watching Channel 4 news here and a focus piece on public transport accessibility for disabled people.

Apparently one of the biggest users for wheelchair users is parents with buggies not folding them to make way for wheelchair users. This startled me - surely there are not really parents out there who refuse to fold down their buggies to make way for a person in a wheelchair??? Seriously? What kind of twat does that?

AIBU to think that any parent who does this is not a nice human being?

Does this actually happen???

"In 2004, following his second election campaign, Mayor of London Ken Livingstone announced the phasing out of the type in order to provide a bus service in the capital fully accessible to wheelchair users. Government legislation requires full accessibility by 2017 under the Disability Discrimination Act. As a consequence, the Routemaster was officially withdrawn from general service on 9 December 2005, although it remains in regular service on two "heritage" routes. "
Even a couple of years ago there were inaccessible buses on some routes I used.

Accessible buses are a good thing.

There's also a North, South and West London.

I'm disabled , certainly don't have a sense of entitlement, but do know that in our area, there are designated buggy spaces on our buses , and then there is a wheel chair space. So when buggy users park their buggys in those spaces - they are using their own buggy spaces. If however a wheel chair user needed to use the bus , then the bus is not allowed to carry both buggy and wheelchair.
In which case the buggy is expected to fold, which is the right thing to do.
I have never seen any one not do this.

There's also north of Watford Gap :)

I've seen buggys folded up here too, Nannyplum

Perhaps you could show us how to do it, Cauliflower?

There are a huge number of absolute twats posting on all sides. And, by some margin,pomposity is not the worst offence.

Should we have a 'pompous, pious arsehole' badge?

Yes, please, Sauvignon.

Is it pompous and pious to want people to take their pushchairs out of the space designed for wheelchair users?

Is it pompous and pious to expect a parent to not mind folding up said pushchair, regardless of how many DCs, bags of shopping, bad backs they have in order for a person in a wheelchair who clearly doesn't have the option of sitting somewhere else to get on the bus?

If it is I want a badge too, a big shiny one that says move your fucking pushchair you ignorant twat

And 14 years ago, London buses did not have a facility to put your buggy on without folding it, it's amazing I ever managed to get to work and back every day (6 buses) with 2 DCs.

HTH

Tantrums perhaps your badge would make a better sign to designate that disabled spaces are for disabled passengers to use rather than pushchairs. It would seem that the current ones aren't getting the message across as clearly as they should.

Yes I think that would be a much better sign. I could even shout it really loudly and at the push of a button it would be heard all over the buses?

It just really really irritates me, I got a double pushchair on and off 6 buses with no wheelchair space, for fucks sake if a person in a wheelchair needs the space, no one can justify not moving, folding the pushchair and letting the person in a wheelchair get on.

People are lacking in manners and courtesy and just general decency IMHO

i may have not folded the buggy as dd had difficulty walking and experiences pain on walking...

i my not have folded the buggy up if ds was having a meltdown... and getting him out would result in him running away hurting himself/his sister or some rndom passenger on the bus. i ama not keen on getting bitten/scratched/hit in the face either and I need 2 hands to restrain him and could not support dd and her physical difficulties/hold the buggy and restrain ds at the same time.

it is not always clear cut. children in buggys may have hidden disabilities. the parent my have difficulties that are not always obvious on first sight. they may have struggled walking onto a bus but now they are sitting, it is not obvious. judging and shouting and saying things are black and white is not helpful or kind to those who do have genuine resons for having children in a buggy.

dd is going to have difficulties all her life and ds may too. it is nice to know that they are going to be judged all their lives because their difficulties are not immediately visible I already have to put up with the sniggering and tutting when ds is having tantrums in the supermarket and I am dealing with it in a calm and measured way whilst trying not to get bitten

I agree Maryz. I don't think having a child with behavioural issues is the best excuse either redwhite

Redwhiteandblue

Tbh I don't think the issue of judging would be such a big one if so many didn't quite cheerfully say that they won't fold their buggy because their baby is just way to precious and pushing a buggy is just so incredibly challenging.

Dd2 has behavioural difficulties, not of the regular toddler variety whereby they have paddy and scratch and bite when they don't get their way most todddlers do this most parents cope.

Dd2 is being assessed for SEN and various other behavioural issues.

I'd still get her off of a bus if I needed to. I'm her parent, it is my job to be in control of her, and while it's not always easy, at the end of the day I'm good 3 and half foot taller than her and weigh a great deal more. I can restrain her with one arm, it's not easy, but I can do it. Yes it fucking hurts when she bites and draws blood, but at the end of the day teaching her that I am too scared to get her off of a bus while she is having a tantrum is teaching her what, exactly?

Evening all. We'd just like to remind everyone that we will remove posts on this thread (and elsewhere on the boards, where they are reported to us) that are clearly disablist in tone and intent.

We have no wish to censor discussion about accessibility (or lack of it) on buses for pushchairs and wheelchairs but we regard posts that suggest wheelchair users have no greater right than pushchair pushers to designated wheelchair spaces as disablist.

It would be greatly appreciated if everyone could bear this in mind when they are posting.

Thankyou.

Honest question.

Do buses in London not have space for Wheelchairs and Prams?

But the post Maryz copied is heartbreaking to read. A teenager in a wheelchair should not have to worry about how she is going to get into town and meet her friends, at all.

MNHQ have said and done something.Finally.

And I see deletions.

There are lots of different bus companies under the TFL umbrella. They all have a designated wheelchair space, with a sign saying it must be vacated if a wheelchair user needs it and buggies may need to be folded at busy times.

Some, usually single deckers, have another space opposite, but it is not designated specifically for buggies and is also used for shopping trolleys, luggage and standing passengers.

It usually works OK - tho' I've sometimes been told to fold before getting on because there are already buggies on the bus, but on most doubledeckers there is definitely not room for a wheelchair and an unfolded buggy, even a small one.

Where do you all live with all of these unhelpful people on buses? On the rare occasions when I took dd in her buggy on the bus (usually she was in a sling) and I needed to fold for a wheelchair, I'd just pass her to someone, give ds to someone else, give someone else my bags and fold the pushchair. Never had any problems, or any shortage of helpers. And I'm in London. Perhaps don't wait for people to offer to help. You don't know that people aren't helping because they're selfish. They might be not helping because they don't want a mouthful of abuse (yes, that does happen), or because (in the mournful words of an elderly lady on a bus I was on recently) 'you mustn't talk to the kids, Jim. These days you can't just go and talk to children'. And if they are simply being selfish, if you ask them directly they're not that likely to say no...
Bottom line is, there is NO excuse. It's exactly the same as parking in a disabled space because all the p&t spaces had gone.

Maryz, thanks for reposting that. It is awful, and I hope Dawndonna's DD doesn't ever have to put up with such selfish shit again.

I had to get a bus in Sydney while DS was still in a buggy - they wouldn't let me on until I'd folded it. While I could understand that - it is obviously to prevent people refusing to collapse their buggies once on the bus and so probably a good idea - having to then lift a buggy and DS (toddler) onto the bus was cumbersome and not a little dangerous. But I still did it because them's the rules.

If the rules are: move out of the space for a wheelchair user, then bloody well do it!