to think not folding a buggy to make way for a wheelchair user on a bus is despicable?

[Zara1984]

Just watching Channel 4 news here and a focus piece on public transport accessibility for disabled people.

Apparently one of the biggest users for wheelchair users is parents with buggies not folding them to make way for wheelchair users. This startled me - surely there are not really parents out there who refuse to fold down their buggies to make way for a person in a wheelchair??? Seriously? What kind of twat does that?

AIBU to think that any parent who does this is not a nice human being?

Does this actually happen???

To be fair when I had a buggy I wouldn't have been happy about having to fold it up on a bus.

So we walked everywhere or used taxis because I knew before we took the bus that if an elderly person or a wheelchair user got on I'd have to get off, so we didn't bother in the first place.

If it was raining I used a raincover and a big mac for me. If it was cold I used extra blankets on the baby and a big winter jacket for me. If it was snowing I used a sledge or we hibernated for days and did online shopping - have you ever tried pushing a buggy in the snow, it's not fecking easy, I have the utmost empathy for people in wheelcahirs who must do it every winter or face being stuck inside for weeks on end every winter.

Calm went out the window after the first couple Of threads

And it's NEVER to early to Offer me a Pimms :)

The buses where I live have both a designated space for buggys on one side, and a wheelchair space with fixings etc on the other. Been thinking about this, what would people think of someone who was in the buggy space with a buggy, and the space for wheelchairs is occupied by someone in a wheelchair, and another wheelchair user wants to board?

To be clear I am squarely on the side of "move your fucking buggy if you are in the wheelchair space" (although I guess Id be a bit less knobby about it if someone was on their way to a hospital apppointment, although how would I know ). But on the same lines of the "it is a designated wheelchair space" argument......what if someone was in the designated buggy space and doesnt move for a wheelchair user? Would that be ok because they are in their designated space?

Tbh, I'd still expect people to move.

I don't think it really matters if it's a designated space or not, I just think if one person has the option to fold the buggy so a wheelchair user should get on the bus, you should just do it.
Ok, it's a hassle to get the baby out, fold the buggy, etc but at least it is an option.

A person in a wheelchair doesn't have that option.

Mind you, I am one of those people that moves for everyone, elderly people, mums with toddlers etc and I make sure my DCs do the same.

I try and treat people how is like to be treated and I'd like to think if I was in need of a space or a seat, people would be courteous.

I think it would probably be the case that the bus is only insured to carry one wheelchair, and only in the designated space. The spaces usually have a special backrest and a metal side bar, presumably to stop it from tipping over etc in the case of an accident.

So I would have thought that the bus driver would not be able to allow a second wheelchair user to board in the first place.

I think I would aswell Tantrums, I would. Although Maamekin I didnt think of the insurance thing either, the buggy bits dont have the restraints etc.

Yes I think Id hope ther buggy person would at least offer to fold buggy down/get off so even if the driver refused they have at least tried to do the right thing.

Tantrums, I also move for anyone! Was on the bus the other day and another mum with a buggy wanted to get on, I was in the buggy bit and was nearly at my stop anyway so offered to get off for her. Bus driver said "no, you were there first" and shut the doors in her face

Some people on here seem to be implying that there is a 100% chance of being kicked off the bus for a wheelchair user

All those who say they wouldn't, how many times have you actually been in the position?

On the buses round here we have a 1 designated wheelchair space with a bar and back rest, we also have a designated buggy space which is slightly smaller.
Both spaces have flip down seats so they other people can use them if not needed, you could also fit a stroller next to the wheelchair space even when a wheelchair user is on the bus.
I have mobility problems and have parathesia over parts of my back, legs and feet, i would always get off for a wheelchair user if there was no space for me.

I always used to try and get the buggy space whenever i got on because just moving the buggy up a few seats was painful, however a lot of the time the buggy space had one or two people sitting in it and the one time i asked if i could put the buggy threre i got shouted at, dispite there being lots of other seats available for them.
Surely if it is designated a buggy space it should be used by one if it is needed.
I really think there should be a movement made to get a buggy space on all buses as well, there is a genuiene need, it isn't as simple as we can all fold the buggies etc, i can not drive because of my mobility problems, and can not walk that far either due to them, this thread has made me really anxious because in a couple of weeks im expecting again and am dreading the bus journeys already.
I also agree that bus drivers need to be a bit more helpful, some of them don't even let the elderly sit down before speeding off, or even lower the bus so they can get off more easily.

I am shamed/amazed that this thread is the most popular one I've ever started.

This thread has been enlightening for me. I think what's clear is that (at least) better signage/education is necessary - both on buses and at bus stops. For example, clear signs saying that wheelchairs have priority AT ALL TIMES and that if a wheelchair user boards you need to fold yer buggy. And a sign a bus stops telling people they should try and have their buggy folded BEFORE boarding the bus (I see mums do this often, and they usually all have more than one kid with them, how is that so hard?)

And maybe that bus drivers should be told to wait just a wee bit longer (10-20 seconds?) when they see a wheelchair user coming on the bus/a buggy being folded up.

The Channel 4 piece (and the blind lady talking about her experiences) also made me realise I need to do more to actively offer help to vision impaired people - eg boarding bus, finding a seat, or even crossing a road.

Maybe I am one of these naive/unrealistic people that always tries to help others on the bus who are struggling to get their stuff sorted. Then again nobody helped me/said a word when I was throwing up on the bus into my handbag due to morning sickness a few months ago...!! (That was a funny situation, in hindsight)

HOWEVER the only person I have ever not moved for on a bus is a mean old nun who poked my leg hard with her walking stick because she and her fellow meanie nun wanted to sit together (instead of taking two single seats one behind the other - there was ample seating available!!). I glared at her, then ignored her and looked out the window.

ElizaRegina Before you get too enthusiastic about ripping out seats so there can be a designated buggy space, have a thought for the walking wounded/elderly who need the priority seats. My bus route passes a hospital and a G.P.'s surgery and we often have people with broken arms or on crutches or walking sticks standing in the aisles, because all the priority seats are taken. Not to mention the currently unscathed elderly who are trying to avoid breaking something and joining their number by sitting down safely. Meanwhile the wheelchair space with its handy rail for holding on to is blocked by buggies....

Imv, in ranking order, it's wheelchair users first, walking wounded/elderly second and young mothers with buggies a poor third. And don't hold your breath for improved bus design. The brief for the new Routemaster was that the young and agile could hop on and off at the back in stalled traffic. To enable which, there is now less space for wheelchairs and buggies.

But buggies fold, fixed prams should not be allowed on the bus in the first place and ffs, people, it's only for a short time. It's because you have a baby. Isn't that a blessing? No one wants to be old, sick or disabled.

There are parents who have a range of mobility problems as well, these are not as important as wheelchair users, but there is a need for a buggy space, I fon't know what I would do if I couldn't use a bus at all, I can not fold a buggy myself, even an umbrella stroller, i can't manage a few steps on the bus whilst it Is moving because it's extremely painful, it isn't just the elderly who need priority seating, I wish people would get that.

OTT

I'm sure they do. Which is why I said 'walking wounded', who could be of any age. It must be very difficult for you. You sound as if you're in the same sort of position as people who use a three wheeled mobility aid, or even the four-wheeled shopping trolley which gives some stability when standing/walking.

All these have been largely ignored by posters and when they talk of a designated buggy space it looks as if they see it as a place for the able-bodied mother to avoid having to fold buggies/get off the bus.

I'm afraid there will be a backlash if people make too much of the inconvenience of travelling with a child and put themselves in a category that need special treatment equivalent with that of people with disabilities, including that of old age.

its not really about a special category though is it.

Its just about the users of a service wanting the most from that service, and the service provider to take them in to consideration.

There are many women who use buggies who use the bus so they should be catered for.

where is the complication?

evreybody I have never been kicked of the bus for a wheelchair user, I have always managed to fold or to share the space (at insistence of wheel chair user).

Using a smaller buggy which can hold less crap certainly helps this!!

Yes, it is difficult, not as difficult as it is for someone in a wheelchair, but just a few weeks ago I got a different bus and there were 2 umbrella strollers on the bus, that's all the space they had, one had a small toddler, the other had 3 bags of shopping in it, the owner parked it there and went to the back with her 5/6 year old, next stop a lady got on with a newborn, I mean literally a few weeks old, turns out this was the 4th bus that had come with no space so she got, I helped her whilst on crutches and 33 weeks pregnant, in pain and had the carry got spread across the mums and my lap, no one else piped up to help, I can't tell if everyone on the bus had an invisible disability, but I can seriously doubt it.

that is the other problem, it is easy to say fold, but when no one helps you fold it is harder to do.

and we have to get out of this mentality that everyone chooses giant prams. The people in my area dont choose, they get donated from family and friends etc, they havent got spare £200 for pushchair, if not given by family and friends they use second hand shops and just get what is available.

Nailak
Going by numbers is a mistake. It means we end up with the new Routemaster which is ideal for transporting large numbers of commuters in comfort, lots of seats. They are the biggest users of public transport. But less useful for special interest groups. Not nearly as many of them.

Yes - buggy users should be catered for, but not at the expense of priority seats. I'm afraid if mothers become too strident and insistent on their rights they will end up annoying another group of people.

What worries me about this thread is the revelation that many bus companies only pay lip service to the law by providing the wheelchair space but not enforcing the priority of wheelchair users. So it will be easier for mothers to refuse to fold or get off, thereby giving the rest of us a bad name.

I agree that the trend towards larger and less foldable buggies has made the situation worse. I'd like to see 'Approved for public transport' stickers at point of sale, like hand luggage for air travel.

Well shouted said Tantrums! Say it like it is.