To have sensed weird animosity towards non-mums on mumsnet?

[ToastedTeacakes]

I really hope that I have got this wrong, but after reading through a few older threads, one in particular which concerned state benefits and low income families, I noticed quite a few comments which appeared to be condemning childless women as 'selfish'.

This really puzzled me, but the idea seemed to suggest that if a woman chooses not to have children then she ought not to expect help or assistance in her old age (from the state/other people's taxes, etc).

Now, I am not a parent (yet!), but my eldest sister (aged 46) has never been able to conceive, yet has worked almost 20 years in a care home for the elderly/terminally ill. So obviously I felt quite disturbed by the thought that she may be considered even remotely selfish or undeserving of similar help in her twilight years. Surely she is contributing to society???

Is it true that the over-riding opinion is that a childless woman has made no contribution to society, simply because she doesn't have kids?

Please tell me I'm wrong and have misinterpreted these comments - as someone (along with my sister) who has always had profound respect for mums and parents in general, this would be really sad, I think.

I've never seen that attitude on MN

I haven't either!

No, it isn't a Mumsnet attitude (I've lurked, and the attitude towards non parents is more 'good for you' ) in my experience!

However, I do know the attitude you mean but it's a media attitude - in fact attitude isn't correct but it's an assumption sometimes, inherant in (stupid) remarks about expensive holidays, designer clothes and an unspoiled cream-carpeted house. Like most sweeping generalisations, it is best ignored and laughed at. By taking it seriously, you suggest it's a serious point. It isn't.

Don't worry about it.

I can link to a page where, half way down, someone mentions this topic (to give a general idea of what I mean)

Particularly the comments at 12:36:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1443665-If-you-cant-afford-children-you-shouldnt-have-them

I do hope I have misinterpreted it!

You tangentify 'a few comments' into 'over-riding opinion' without a link and expect us to debate?

I have never seen anyone criticise childfree women on here without being pulled up on it sharpish.

I don't think that's true at all on this site - were the points you're referring to made in the context of childless people having said why should they contribute to state education through their taxes or funded nursery places etc? In my recollection of those kind of threads I think the debate about 'contributions' to society only come up because some people in society seem to think that they shouldn't be making contributions to 'other people's children' without thinking about the future and who will be the next generation of workers to fund our paltry state pensions.

I can think of a number of well known and well liked posters on here that don't have children.

Defence I grew up next door to a single lady who actually had a very similar attitude to her unspoiled carpets, we were all quite scared of her!

Shrug. I don't read it like that. I think it's a fair point that young people will be supporting us in our old age.

I don't have kids and I've never had anyone say I'm selfish. Maybe it's because most of my friends don't have kids, or because I live in London where it's fairly normal.

I think you've taken those few comments totallyu out of context.

I don't have children, and I can't say I've noticed a negative attitude to the child-free/childless on here.

Well this is the thing, I am glad that you are telling me that I have got it wrong (thank god!)

There were other threads, but I could not relocate them now. The linked one was from this morning so I could go back and find it easily enough.

I really only wanted to check what the general reaction to this was - and I did admit in my OP that I have possibly misinterpreted.

What a load of old twaddle

I think YABU. Every so oftern someone starts wondering why you'd be on mumsnet if you're childfree but they get told to shut up pretty much straight away. I am childfree!

I think YABU. Every so oftern someone starts wondering why you'd be on mumsnet if you're childfree but they get told to shut up pretty much straight away. I am childfree!

YABVU.

One or two comments out of literally millions= chip on your shoulder.

So do I, actually, but it's only because they cost a fortune (had to get the whole house recarpeted!)

I am planning a baby so this may have to change

Thanks wheezo!

I don't think that's true at all on this site - were the points you're referring to made in the context of childless people having said why should they contribute to state education through their taxes or funded nursery places etc?

Yes, this was it! Now I understand, it makes more sense. I have managed to read out of context and not quite digested the info properly.

You have taken that comment totally out of context.

Anyway its a bit off to single out another posters comment for discussion IMO

There are bound to be some people on here who think like that, because there are some people in the world who think like that, so it's logical to assume that some of them happen to post on mumsnet

That doesn't make it a 'mumsnet view' or anything.

i am a parent. i couldn't care less if someone else chooses to not have children. I think that if someone doesn't actually want children - they are doing the right thing by not having them! Children deserve to be born into a family where they are wanted! It is a GOOD thing, not a selfish thing, to recognise that having a child is not for you and to make sure it doesn't happen.

there are lots of people in the world. We aren't suffering a shortage or anything and contributing, well, the taxes we pay during our lifetime do that!

Go onto DOGHOUSE in the Pet Section (as a non dog owner) and complain about dog-dirt/ dogs not on leads in parks/ dogs on beaches and be told how fecking unreasonable you are, the world does not revolve round your child flamed

TBH before I polluted the Earth with the fruit of my loins I wouldn't have even clicked onto MN. Just as I avoided McD , going on holiday during the school holidays and 'child friendly' days out.

I'm with you all, no worries!
Apologies for linking to the post too, if this is shitty etiquette.

There were other threads though, but only a couple.
I was more confused than shouder-chippy.

I've never seen this attitude before. You can't make a generalisation based on the odd post, ffs!

shoulder-chippy!

I have seen some horrible attitudes on here, actually.

I've seen people say that childless women shouldn't be allowed to be teachers (and persist in this despite the distress it was causing to a regular poster - a very dedicated teacher who was unable to have children and at that grieving a recent late miscarriage), that there is nothing a mother could possibly learn (on any subject, not just childrearing) from a childfree woman, that people without children are self-centred and have soulless and empty lives, that they shouldn't be allowed to book holiday or take Christmas Day off work to spend with their families or have flexible working arrangments if it might inconvenience a parent, that people without children should be reported to the police for speaking to or looking at someone else's child in a public park (and if they're men, for even entering the park if children are playing there).

I think it's the most unpleasant and hateful thing about this place tbh.

EphinyBloody hell! Haven't stumbled upon anything that extreme, but I guess it takes all sorts.

I've never seen anyone say that about teachers, Ephiny. It seems crazy when you think no teachers had children years ago. Until 1961 women had to leave teaching when they got married and certainly wouldn't have been allowed to teach if they were unmarried mothers.