AIBU to be reluctant to get married?

[Pollyskettle]

We plan on buying a house and I plan on getting pregnant within the next year. That's The Plan. With capitals and all.

My DP is quite traditional and has made numerous comments in the past about getting married. Since we first met, I made it clear that I'm not a big fan of marriage, having lived through my parents' messy divorce.

I will marry him if he really wants it, but AIBU to be reluctant? Is there any real point in getting married?

Well it annoys me that people think the little woman is not capable of supporting herself financially

OK i'm going to ignore the practical/financial aspects of the argument to marry or not....

on an emotional level, for me i just loved the fact i stood in front of all my friends and family and stated clearly that i loved my DH and wanted to be with him forever. when we exchanged rings, we said " i give you this ring as i give you myself, all that i have and all that i am". i have never spoken a truer word.

of course you never know what the future has in store for you but it felt 100% right for me and my DH then and it does now

but because it is right for me, does not mean it is the "right" thing - there is no right and wrong - what YOU and your DP feel is the right thing. no relationship needs to be given an official stamp - it's just what some couples like to do. the real intent is what is in your heart - nothing official can make or break that.

sorry for waffling, i blame sambuca.

Who said that?!

DP and I aren't married and will have been together 25 years next month. He has 3 brothers who have all been married twice in the time we've been together and 2 are now single after their second marriages fell apart.

It's just not that important to us ~ we have talked about it several times over the years, but we're just happy as we are.

Our wedding was traditional and profoundly spiritual. I still remember the depth and meaning the service had. I knew I would marry DH the night I met him. However, both my parents had by then been divorced twice and my mother insisted on a pre-nup. The finances can be crystallised within or without marriage, one just needs the right legal advice.

It's really up to individuals. I got married at 30 because it was something I hadnt tried and wanted to do. We are still there after 16 years. Hubs didn't want to.

I couldn't walk away from my marriage though I could walk away from our lives if we were not. There is something about marriage that makes you try harder.

In my opinion.

One issue is that if you choose to be a SAHM for a prolonged time (and I appreciate that this is not now not the norm and may not be something you are even considering), then if you split and you're not married, you're not entitled to any spousal maintenance so you could be screwed if you haven't worked for 10 yrs as you've been bringing up a family full time- i.e. partner waltzes off into distance with great salary that you've partly enabled, and you're scrabbling around for a min wage job.

Of course, if it's the other way around, and you are the higher earner/ he is planning on being a SAHD, then it makes (financial) sense for you not to get married.

Whilst no-one should be assuming that either partner cant support themselves these days, it's a fact that very few couples have earnings which are 50/50, so one partner's lifestyle is to an extent dependent on the other one (assuming you pool finances) for the duration of the relationship.

The inheritance tax thing is also an issue. Married couples inherit from one another without inheritance tax. This is also not an issue for most people as you need assets of c. £350k before you pay any, but worth considering if you've got a big house. There are also Capital gains considerations (nil value transfers between spouses) but again, only really an issue if you want to switch assets between you for tax purposes.

Anyway, those are the practical considerations, but let's face it, it's usually not a practical decision.

I wouldnt be put off by the wedding though- you can just go down to the town hall in your jeans with 2 witnesses if you want.

For me, getting married was a public declaration of our commitment to each other. It wasnt about having the same surname or being owned by my husband, AFAIK you are free to choose any surname you please, if changed by deed poll. Since being married, I have felt freer and more confident to face life's ups and downs than ever before.

Financial and practical advantages aside, I also felt that our children deserved to have parents that were proud to show their commitment to each other and the family unit, I would not have got pregnant without being married first.

I think a successful and enduring marriage is one of life's greatest achievements.

But that is just what is important to me and what I chose for myself. Other people may not care about this and that is entirely their choice and no concern of mine!!

married that's not strictly true though. Pre-nups have no legal standing in England & Wales (although they do in Scotland i believe) and there's no way of getting around the IHT/CGT limitations either.

The law simply does not recognise co-habiting relationships so there's no legal framework from which to force any sort of financial settlement. If you split, and it impoverishes one of you, tough.

Wills go so far, but you can't write "I leave my entire estate to Y, my partner of 40 yrs and I'd like her/him not to have to pay any tax on that because I consider us to be like married people."

Given the realities of financial dependence today, it does often make practical and financial sense for women to get married.

Anyway, as I said, people dont usually get married because they'll be better off financially if they split, but the OP asked is there any point? In my opinion, sometimes, yes.

Trusts.

Yanbu.

That said, a mortgage and kids = commitment

You need a will (so do I)

It would be fairer to give kids double-barrelled or his name if you want him to have parental responsibility.

Be warned, kids can be a make or break anyway

Statistically the idea that there is a greater chance of splitting if marrying after cohabiting first no longer rings true acc to a recent study.

Doesnt help with spousal maintenance, and only limited on IHT (i.e. cannot cover all assets and limits use of them). Cheaper and easier and more watertight to do the "town hall + 2 witnesses" thing.

Oh well, all a bit academic for us after 21 years.

Yes, most probably

You are absolutely right that there are lots of ways to mitigate the legal disadvantages of cohabiting vs marriage, but it's usually more expensive and not as watertight. Critically, although many people talk about doing it, very few actually do. Hence, when the partner who earns 80% of the family income goes off with his/her 25 yr old (or dies intestate), the other one might be a bit screwed.

From Judge Judy:

1. If you call this commitment, you should be committed.

2.It amazes me that people who turn faint at the thought of walking down the aisle think nothing of purchasing houses, boats, and cars with live-in lovers. When they try to get satisfaction, they learn just why it's easier to keep things legal. 3.don't kid yourself that is is a commitment until death - especially when it comes to money.

If a child of mine ever opened a bank account with Mr. Almost-Sort-of-Committed, I'd have her committed. Think how much easier it would be if we had laws for people living together. My laws would be:

1. No live-in arrangement shall exceed one year. If after one year there is no date for the wedding, the termporary partnership shall be disbanded.

2.Live-ins shall not purchase any of the following items jointly: house, car, boat, coffee machine, dog.

1. All expenses shall be divided equally, and a precise record kept.
2. The word commitment shall only be used in referring to the upcoming wedding.

When people are in love and have stars in their eyes, they don't want to deal with the messy business of contracts. What really gets messy though is when the relationship folds and one of the partners realises too late that she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Its' the favourite refrain of gun-shy single people: 'A wedding certificate is just a piece of paper!' Does anyone really believe that? Come on! Don't tell me marriage is meaningless. You wouldn't be protesting so much if it were meaningless.

One of the perks of marriage, as opposed to 'just living together', is the divorce. When you are divorcing, there are courts to help you divide your property and settle disputes. There is no 'Court of People Just Living Together'. It's up to you to be smart. Plan. Keep things simple - not so romantic, but often practical. Walking away from a relationship is never easy. Walking away encumbered with debt, bills, leases, and obligations just prolongs the agony.

It's always about the money.

YANBU - how you feel is how you feel.

If your DP is happy to wait (or not marry at all) then you can sort the legal stuff like wills. If he feels as strongly "for" marriage as you are "against" then you probably need to keep talking and consider compromises.

I felt just like you when I was younger, hated the idea of a traditional wedding ceremony where the father "gives" the woman to the man, like being property to be transferred. My boyfriend felt the same about marriage so no problem there. We had 2 DCs and bought a house as "boyfriend + girlfriend", while other friends got married then divorced - different decisions for different couples.

Out of interest, over time I now feel differently and 16 years later we are getting married this year because we love each other and want to celebrate with family and friends. Walking into a ceremony on a local beach as a family of four, writing vows ourselves feels special. I'm surprised at how excited I am!

I haven't read it all as have screaming toddler in my ear! But if you don't want to be owned can you mix up your surnames? I know its unusual and doesn't always work but if you wanted to come up with something new and not double barrelled you could mix up your letters and anagram it, you could do a registry officy or head to Gretna? Or fly off to vegas?
Although expect the wrath of both sides of your families

Of course you don't have to get married. Sort out all the legalities, and make them watertight, and then stick to your guns. I personally have been fending off repeated proposals from Mr Inferior for the past 5 years .

I quite fancy the idea of a wedding - I like a party and am madly self-centred - but marriage, not so much. Makes me feel all stifled just to think about.

And obviously, even if you do get married, don't do anything silly like giving up your name for some bloke's!

Yanbu to not want to get married.

You're an eejit if you make the decision not to without doing lots of research and being aware of the legal rights that no arrangement other than marriage can possibly provide you with. And no, this doesn't necessarily assume the woman will be the lower earner either. Let's say the woman earns the money and owns the home, and the man is a SAHD, then the woman dies intestate. Surviving partner comes close to the bottom of the pecking order according to the intestacy rules and might have to leave the family home if someone higher up insists. Or inherits it, along with a huge IHT liability and has to leave the family home because of it. Most of us wouldn't want to leave a DP in this position. So you need a suitable will, and to ascertain whether the IHT exemptions and difficulty proving the relationship for immigration purposes ae relevant to you or not.

The other stuff about the advantages of marriage is all a matter of opinion and may not apply to you. The financial and legal advantages aren't, and should only be foregone if you are confident you don't need them.

YANBU in the least, OP. I was in a very happy 20-year relationship with my partner, and neither of us had the faintest desire to marry. However, we did actually marry recently - in jeans, on our lunchbreak, with just two witnesses, no rings etc- a month before our baby was born, because we realised that if I died in childbirth, my partner had no automatic rights in relation to our baby.

You do have the option of having a solicitor draw you up a document that will give you the same equal and financial rights as marriage. But if you do choose to marry, you can of course do it as casually and secretly as we did - we didn't tell anyone other than the friends who acted as witnesses - and forget it afterwards. We have a cert at the bottom of a drawer somewhere, and nothing has changed, and I genuinely forget that we're married. I have of course kept my name, and our baby has both our surnames.

The same legal and financial rights as marriage, dammit.

But of course if you really don't want to, don't do it. It's a perfectly reasonable stance - to be honest, we were too lazy to have someone draw up a legal document to give us rights equivalent to marital ones, hence the marriage. But I don't feel any different, our relationship hasn't changed, and we're proof you can have a marriage without a wedding. The civil ceremony took ten minutes and then we headed out for a highly enjoyable meal with our witnesses. There isn't even a photo!

"the same equal and financial rights as marriage"

Not quite: no document can give you IHT exemption or rights to a pension if the policy does not include provision for unmarried partners (check yours), nor eligibility for bereavement and widows' payments. And though standing ready to be corrected on this, it also does not guarantee any rights at all if you split up.

You could miss out on a widowed parents' benefit.
If you don't want to get married it'll be well worth you sorting life insurances, next of kin etc and doing a will.
There are websites with helpful info:
www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/