to think if we fund religious schools through taxes, DD should be considered for a place?

[experiencethis]

I'm not originally from the UK, so maybe I am missing the point here. It puzzles me that whilst some religious schools are (partially) government-funded by taxpayers, they do not treat all as equals when allocating places. Our local state CoE primary is lovely and walking distance from our house. But looking at the local authority's website we'd have to get the local CoE church to validate that we are part of the congregation (which we aren't) and attend service a number of times per quarter (which we don't). DH and I would be happy for DD to attend a religious school, we think exposing her to different faiths and beliefs will make her a well-rounded adult (we have Jewish, Catholics and Buddists in the wider family). She will then be able to decide on any of them or none at all as she pleases. AIBU ?

Now you both are not being honest. Catholic schools without a Catholic intake or Catholic head would not be Catholic schools. You are wanting to close them down as state schools for children in the UK who are Catholic and, where undersubscribed, popular with people of other faiths and none. Besides, the LA doesn't fund schools you and I do - taxpayers of whom Catholics pay their taxes. When you talk about "MY" taxes it is as if your taxes are worth more that taxes paid by Catholics. We are not second class citizens.

Catinthehand... I understand you situation but don't understand how closing down popular and successful faith schools will improve your choices.

No. I just want schools not to discriminate against children on the basis of their parent's real or pretended religion.

When you talk about "MY" taxes it is as if your taxes are worth more that taxes paid by Catholics.
I don't know how you infer that. Actually, you know what - I'm not bothered whether the parents of children looking for places pay tax at all. The children of people below the tax threshold have an equal right to education.

We are not second class citizens.
Indeed not. That would be the non-religious people who won't play the pew game.

When you talk about "MY" taxes it is as if your taxes are worth more that taxes paid by Catholics. We are not second class citizens.

No, you are first class citizen because as a Christian you get a superior services to a non-Christian taxpayer. It's non Christian taxpayers who are coming second here.

Catinthehand... I understand you situation but don't understand how closing down popular and successful faith schools will improve your choices.

Well clearly I'd have more choice if I was allowed to apply for all local schools not a minority in my area ie have the same rights as a Christian!

And sorry no one has talked about closing schools, rather opening up the application process to all. Yes, that would clearly dilute the Catholicness in terms of intake in some locations, although not necessarily the form the education takes.

However there seems to be the assumption that allowing the rest of us the same access will send faith schools spiraling into a pit of despair and poor results, which is rather interesting assumption. The average Buddhist wants the same for their child as the average Catholic. You mentioned the Glasgow school that had to take Muslims due to a lack of Catholics. Have they driven down the results?

The CofE and regular schools in my area have identical Ofsted reports, so it's not the case that faith = better results. It's simply a matter of access being restricted for certain groups. (The one Catholic school is admittedly rated one step higher, but it has a socially exclusive, low FSM, low SEN, intake as after the local parish kids are accepted from 3 'sister' parishes in very affluent areas which is how the MP gets their kids in despite living a long way from the school )

If you do understand my situation do you think it's acceptable that I, and the majority of local residents in my area, have restricted access to state schooling as we're not of one particular faith group?

I just wanted to make it clear that I don't want superior treatment. I just want the same treatment, which is guaranteed access to a local state school. My nearest schools won't take DS as we're not Christian, and we're further away from the regular ones so may fall outside their catchments, which are based on proximity. I've got less chance of getting him a local school place than a Christian from a different part of London who fancies applying here. Madness.

I'm very happy for my DS to be taught about faiths and make his own mind up - and if he gets a local place in few years time I promise not to sacrifice a goat to Satan during the annual fete.

Cathkin./. - here is the thing. Posters here say that intake to Catholic schools are different - and indeed they are they are Catholic... not normal state schools: differently trained heads and perhaps a proporiton of other teachers, majority of governors appointed by Diocese, different philosopy of education purpose, Catholic teaching across all subjects not just RE. Different yes but not discriminatory.
You want access to these schools which I understand, but if they are not allowed to be be the schools that they are but rather become like every other school will there be the demand.

Catkin... oh by the way Christian's don't sacrifice goats; if you think this do you really think you'd be happy in such a school?

Different yes but not discriminatory
...how can you keep saying they aren't discriminatory when the admissions criteria of every catholic and every VA CofE school I've seen clearly are discriminatory? . What do you think the word means?

Catkin... oh by the way Christian's don't sacrifice goats; if you think this do you really think you'd be happy in such a school?
she doesn't, she was joking that she was a Satanist. (that's how I read it)

You want access to these schools which I understand

Actually I don't want access to a specifically Catholic school, just a local one. The Catholic one is nearest (literally a street away) and I'd happily take a place there, or the CofE one which is 2nd nearest, or the regular one or the second CofE which are equidistant third/fourth, or regular which is fifth further away. But chances are I won't be allowed access to a local school, as the majority of residents are competing for a place at the two local schools that allow us access. I know you see Catholic education as different, but I'd argue that all good schools promote a holistic approach rather than exam passing and Catholic maths is the same as Anglican or secular maths etc. The results are good in all the local schools, with the Catholic school one Ofsted grade ahead simply due to the social geography of its intake.

But the point is the state makes provision for Christians which is doesn't for others.

I think it's good for social cohesion and community development for children to go to local schools. The situation in London is coming to a head as state provision is not able - actually not willing - to keep up with the numbers of non-Christians who are resident but excluded from local schooling.

Catkin... oh by the way Christian's don't sacrifice goats; if you think this do you really think you'd be happy in such a school?

I was actually making a joke about non-Christians being seen as weirdo velvet-wearing, dancing naked round the fire, goat sacrificers. I promise not to do that -unless it's a school BBQ when my heathen Satanist skills might be useful...

Grimma have you really no sense of humour. But satanist or not why would someone who is not a Christian was to attend a Christian faith school,,,, unless its ethos and practice had been so diluted that is made no difference to the non faith attendee.

If you have digested previous points about what is discrimination - then really there is not much point in continuing. Clearly you want to ban state faith schools - that is a reasonable (if naive position) but what is not reasonable is to claim that you don't want to close faith schools merely make sure they stop doing what makes them what they are.

why would someone who is not a Christian was to attend a Christian faith school

Because it's the local school, often the only local option, and parents place community above faith.

blinkblink you are ignoring the rest of the thread. I posted several reasons why a non-Christian would want to attend a Christian school and lots of lots of posters have stated that they don't want to ban faith schools. Read the thread.

Shagmundfreud and Mothership - you can't have it both ways, bad schools so undersubscribed or good schools but discriminatory.
Catholic schools without a Catholic intake or Catholic head would not be Catholic schools.
Blink It's you that's trying to have it both ways, if the RC schools are so fantastic because of the fab RC pedagogy you like to go on about then surely the quality won't be effected by the intake, so they would still deliver even if they had to (shock, horror ) admit local heathen children.

If, in fact, they do well because they can rig the admissions criteria and select their intake then we wouldn't be loosing an excellent school, just a selective one.

Which is it?

I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.
I just want my child to attend a local school.

Now, do you get it, you suggested above that if someone hadn't digested your (erroneous) points about discrimination there was no point continuing. I could and do say the same thing about you, posters just want their children to go to a local school but they cannot because the majority in an area are faith schools that select on religious grounds. How can the admisssions policy be anything other than discrimatory, please answer that question.

To say that posters want faith schoosl closed is incorrect but you continue to argue the point, to make your own point.

Having your child attend a religious school takes a lot of hard work on your part. It doesn't end at the school gate. You will all see each other at weekends when you worship and yes, I do believe this does make a community. All parents get to know each other and it seems to me to be a bit friendlier.

As for those who don't want them because you are paying for them. Fine, lets ban them but you had better be up for paying the 20% that we as a community pay.

But for those of you who are pissed off that you cannot send your kids to a faith school because you are atheist, would you still turn up at weekends and after school for meetings for instance because the school required it?