to think my 9yo should have learned to control his tantrums by now?

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I probably am BU. Because he obviously can't control himself and that's not his fault. I guess it just hits me occasionally that he's not so little anymore and the tantrums still haven't stopped.

He's screaming next to me right now. I asked him not to climb on top of a plastic box because it was going to break, and he lost it. He said I was lying, that he never climbed on the box. He's spitting all over the floor in his anger. I have not reacted, apart from telling him to sit there until he calmed down, and the longer he screamed, the longer he would sit. He's now screaming that his foot is itching, and I think he's forgotten what made him angry in the first place.

Does anyone else have an older child who can't control anger and how do you handle him/her?

Its not a tantrum!!!

He is just having problems expressing his emotions.

You need to empathise more with him.

Cuddle him and tell him you love him.

He learns how to regulate his emotions and feelings from you.

We have a calmdown spot where we can talk calmly to our dc while cuddling them and giving them a snowglobe to shake or a cushion to hit to help vent their feelings.

Yes I do, 11 & 13, but they both have autism.

I'm guessing that's not the case here or you would no doubt have mentioned it

He obviously feels either that behaving that way gets him results, or he's so out of control that he's lost it.

If he got what he wanted - would the tantrum instantly stop? That's the tester. If so, then he's doing it because he's learned that it gets him what he wants (I know there's no way for you to know this, unless you try it out by actually giving him what he wants)

If he cannot calm down once he has 'won'. then maybe you should be looking into some form of anger management support for him, because that level of rage needs to be dealt with.

I realise he is trying to express his feelings but so much anger over a small thing like getting down from a box! I do empathise with him but he also needs to listen to me. He always wants to control every situation and that's not always possible.

Hecate he does not have autism (as far as I know). But he is an unusual child - I don't know how else to describe him.

I don't give into him because he screams, it's definitely a loss of control.

Does he act like this in school or only at home?

My brother was like this. He had a lot of frustration at school (dyslexic but not diagnosed till secondary school!), so difficulty expressing himself/his ability there. I agree maybe stop and hug and talk it out when he gets angry about something which seems like nothing.

My 10 year old can still have spectacular limb thrashing, howling tantrums at times. She's not autistic and usually a very calm, sensible little girl. If she's geuninely upset about something we talk it through when she's calm enough but if its utterly irrational I send her to howl in her room and ignore it. She usually apologises when she comes to her senses and is having fewer tantrums with time.

Only at home. He loses control over things which most others would shrug off. At school his behaviour is fine and he has lots of friends, although he does like to be the leader all the time. If they don't want to do his idea, he would rather play alone. I don't know why he needs control all the time. We try to give him as much freedom as we can.

Ok, time to ask for help and try to find a solution, it is no longer time for hugs and telling him you love him, simply put, in two-three years time he will be taller and strong enough to beat you up. So better to get some professional advice before the teenage hormones kick in.

He is far too old not to have learned to control his emotions better, especially if you have not been giving up to his tantrums.

Perhaps you should consider asking for some support. He obviously needs help to manage his anger that a lot of other children his age don't. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him. It just means people are all different.

but he needs to learn now, if he's struggling then some tips and advice, breathing exercises etc might be invaluable to him.

Talk to your gp, see what's available.

If he's fine at school, then I'm sorry but you are probably looking at having to get some support for your parenting and disciplining techniques at home. You may haveto go through the similar stages to those used in his school, a couple of verbal warnings, a consequence and then a more severe consequence if he doesn't calm down and comply with what you are asking. And you need to be very consistent about it.
His rage seems to be under his conscious control if he flips at home but not elsewhere with other adults.

Op your post makes it sound like this is a reflection on your ds but it presumably is just as much or more a reflection of how you choose to parent him.

How is your relationship generally and what about his dad, what is his approach?

I feel that we have worked very hard trying to find a way to deal with his behaviour. I have not always handled him perfectly and have shouted sometimes, mainly because it's exhausting dealing with him. When he is calm he is lovely. He has always had this need to control. He never liked toys which were set up already for him to play with - he wants to impose his ideas on everything/make everything from scratch. He is very creative. If he's reading a book he tries to make everyone in the room listen to what it's about. He ignores the conversation going on around him and interrupts all the time with whatever he's thinking about.

Where would be the first stop for professional help? We are not in UK.

Why do you think that school are not having the same issues with him?
He can't control most of what happens there, so why no raging tantrums?

His Dad uses the same approach as me - a warning then a consequence, preferably immediate. I feel we are consistent with him.

Yesterday he picked up a tile which was lying in the garden ready for some work we are having done, and he threw it deliberately and it smashed. I calmly told him that he would be paying for a new one from his pocket money. That set him off shouting and arguing for ages - he had lots of arguments about why he should not be paying.

I don't know why he doesn't do it at school - I assume he has some control then lets it all out at home. Also he is a bit better when in a routine - at home we use routine a lot so it's the clock which tells him to go to bed, homework before playing/tv etc. He has more meltdowns at the weekends and during holidays - it took me a while to realise he needs routine as he always seemed happier when there are no demands on him.

I second Fallen's post, the fact that only happens at home discounts a general health problem, which is great news but also points to the fact that you need to find better parenting strategies, so the onus is on you as parents and the boundaries you set for him.

It doesn't matter that you are not in the uk, there are child psychologists and parenting courses mostly everywhere.

Could you sit down with him and talk to him about why he behaves like that?

I don't mean to sound defensive and I am keen to hear any advice/strategies, but I honestly think we have very reasonable boundaries, appropriate consequences and we are consistent. I have come to believe that some children are just a certain way no matter what you do.

I talk to him a lot when he is calm (no point when angry, he can't even hear me) and he is very aware - he says he feels angry and that when he feels like that he wishes bad things would happen to me! I can't remember him every accepting/admitting he's done something - he always maintains that we are in the wrong and he in innocent.

ever not every

Some children are, I have a child on the spectrum. It has taken a lot of active teaching and training to support him and help him develop control over his meltdowns.
But the point I'm trying to make is that your son is able to control and manage his behaviour in some circumstances, and he seems to be choosing not to at home. He has control and is choosing not to exercise it with you.
Do you have a partner to support your attempts to discipline your son? Do you have other children and what is the impact of his behaviour on them?

If control is his issue, does he struggle with big changes of environment (like the one you are about to undertake?)

Does he say why he feels so angry? It sounds to me like there's something else going on the acting out is just a symptom of that.

I suppose the embarrassment factor is there at school too. Although today the cleaner was mopping around him while he thrashed around and that didn't seem to bother him at all.

DH is supportive but not with DS nearly as much as me. I have 2 other dcs who have pretty easy-going personalities - I would think myself such a good parent if I had never had DS! He gets on well with one sister and can't stand the other one.

He can explain why he feels angry for each situation, yes. It can get very long and complicated and is always the other person's fault.

We have moved a few times and generally travel quite a lot and he can be fine or horrendous, you never know. I wouldn't say being in one place or another makes any difference. But things like being in a hotel and not getting the bed he wants could start him off, however plenty of things at home could do that too.