To send Dc3 to a different playgroup to avoid helping?

[AWimbaWay]

Or am I just being a bit selfish and lazy?

My two older dcs went to the same playgroup, a parent committee run group in the grounds of the local Primary School.

I was also planning on sending Dc3 there. It is a great playgroup with lovely staff and incredibly convenient. I could drop the older two at school then walk through the playground to drop Dc3 then 5 minute walk home.

My dilemma is as it is parent run we are expected to do an awful lot to help. When Dd2 was there I was in charge of fundraising and events which involved organising fayres, jumble sales, days out, photos etc. I HATE this kind of thing, as I am sure most people do, but did it out of a sense of obligation. They also need parents to do accounts, admissions, policies and procedures, secretarial work, salaries and training for the paid staff, liaising with ofted and the council, the list goes on and on. We are also expected to go in once or twice a term to help in the playgroup itself.

Third time round I really don't want to help , I'm planning on training so I'm in a position to get back to work ASAP. I'm seriously considering on sending Dc3 to a further away council or private run group to avoid any of this.

The group is already low on numbers and although I understand it needs the parent help to run, it also needs the children. So, would I be unreasonable to say I would like my child to attend but am unwilling to be on the committee or would this just make me look like a lazy cow? I know they already have me earmarked for a major role as I already know how things work from my previous experience, or should I just send Dc3 elsewhere?

"I'm planning on training so I'm in a position to get back to work ASAP. I'm seriously considering on sending Dc3 to a further away council or private run group to avoid any of this. "

It sounds like you need daycare rather than a playgroup that will meet your family's needs. You won't have time to be on any commitee if you are re training.

YANBU just say you would have loved to help again but have too many other commitments this time round...and make sure you say "this time round" as it highlights the fact that you have helped a lot already.

I should add...send him to the playgroup all the other DC went to but don't help.

yanbu, preschool education should be properly funded! But it's not your problem, you've done your dues.

Thank you, I think my worries are that I'll keep hearing how desperate they are for help, how nobody's offering, how the same few parents are having to do everything and I'll feel guilty and put my name forward. I'll just have to stay strong!

AdventuresWithVoles, this is what I'm always confused about, It gets the funding from the council for the children aged over 3, and charges for the other children (it takes from age 2) but this only covers the playworkers wages, building upkeep and utilities, it isn't enough to pay staff to do all the other stuff. I'm not sure what other playgroups do?

At our pre-school we have to have a parent led committee to run legally however we totally understand that not everyone has the time to help out so would never put pressure on them and TBH it would be a waste of time as they wouldn't actually be committed enough anyway. I think they would prefer you to be honest with them and just help out on the fundraising event or something when you can. Any help we ever have is very gratefully received!

Pre-school education is not really funded properly, you get paid per hour for each funded child (£3.77 per hour) and then have to charge whatever you want/can for 2 year olds. This does not amount to much money and once you have paid for rent and wages there is not a lot left, esepcially for community pre-schools who have to keep their fees as low as possible.

I have provided accounts and payroll services for free for many years as well as running the setting for a long time. Luckily the pre-school is now in a position to pay an admin manager and accountant but only because the numbers are really high.

It is a real struggle, even for successful pre-schools so the parents help is much need and much appreciated!

Do any parents who work full time use this group?

If so, I think it is reasonable for you to tell them that you are now "studying full time" and so can't take on an active role. (But perhaps think of a small self-contained and less painful role that you could do).

If not, then it is clear that this is not 'childcare' and so isn't suitable for your current situation.

If it's a facility you use and value, then you have to muck in and help out along with everyone else. That doesn't mean you need to do more than your fair share if you can't make time, but you can't piggyback on other peoples (unpaid) work.
It doesn't sound from your OP that you would freeload like that, but it just really annoys me when people do!!!

I think if ur did plenty with dc1 and dc2 then a backseat role is fair.

Offer to help in a small way, eg a morning or two a term but explain that you can't take on such a large role this time. Try adding that ur sure parents of first time children wud love those roles, as they haven't had a chance and u thoroughly enjoyed it first time, and how sad u are not to be able to help this time.

I think you should use the group, and be quite clear about your ability to help, and the fact it is now significantly reduced. holdaysarenice put it well.

I agree with bumperella. Groups like this can't run without parent support. It's fine to only do as much as you can, but to do nothing means that effectively those who do have to do more, and eventually they get fed up. Eventually that means no playgroup. Ours was nearly in the position this year of not even filling its basic committee positions, which would have meant the playgroup closing. We also rely on parents helping on a rota basis which keeps the ratios right, we have problems with quite a few parents who will do whatever they can to get out of doing their turn, which again means it's always the same parents having to fill in otherwise the group can't open. We have started taking kids of repeat offenders off the register, which I think is perfectly reasonable.

At the very least I think you should make an effort to attend committee meetings and big fundraisers, it only works if everyone does their part. If you can't commit to that, use another facility that isn't parent run.

The thing is I do agree with bumperella and OptimisticPessimist. There were a lot of parents when I was on the committee that did very little if anything at all to help and it did get my back up as it meant those of us who did help had to do so much more. One year I spent 6 hours scrubbing and cleaning the facilities at the end of term as only 5 out of 40, in fact 80 if you count both parents had bothered to turn up. If everyone had chipped in it would have taken 20 minutes.

This is why I'm tempted to just go elsewhere, but in doing that I also risk the group having to close due to low numbers.

It's tricky. The toddlers' group I go to is the same, but as am on committees for a couple of other things, I'm determined not to be on the commitee for it....but still end up doing more than a lot of parents, who seem to do whatever they can to get out of helping at fundraising events etc.
Am trying to treat it as a training course in the art of saying "no", whilst making sure I do at least my fair share of work, but is v difficult as end up feeling guilty AND resentful....!

I think perhaps they are asking a bit too much of parents tbh. If the group receives funding from the state and is also asking parents to pay by the hour, then parents are NBU to expect not to be actively involved in actually running the group. Most parents would expect that to be covered by the paid staff and would not want to do more than helping out a couple of times per term.

If they are expecting parents to actually work then there is no incentive for parents to actually use this group rather than one which doesn't expect this level of commitment.

Sounds to me like they are doing something wrong within their own organisation, if they cannot function without extensive parental involvement.

From your pov, if you have done loads in the past, it is not unreasonable to step back a bit. I would offer to help out for a few sessions, maybe do some clearing up - one off tasks rather than a role which needs lots of time and attention.

I'd send him to the same one the others went to but make sure they know you can't commit as much time with this go around. offer to help but not be the front man on the sales and fundraisers. Or say you can commit only one day per week in the class if thats what they need.
Our school is this way, some parents end up spending as much time there as the kids do, due to fundraisers, meetings, committees and class room helpers. I put my limit at one day per week in the classroom and the teacher was very happy with that.

Not all pre-shool stuff is funded - depends on age of kids, etc. For babies/toddlers in our area, the only one that's funded is a breastfeeding-only toddler group 10 miles away.

Similarly, some groups want to do more than the state funding alone would allow.
You'd need to charge parents much more if you didn't rely on parental help. If it's in a rural area (like the one I go to) then there may only be one group to choose from: make it expensive and you make it unaffordable to some, which would be pretty crappy.
If you don't believe the group is doing it "right" in needing so much parental help, then really you have to either find a different group or get more involved to change things. You can't just say "well I pay £x per hr and the govt funds £y per hr so it should be enough. If it's not then am going to go and get the most out of the facilities but will freeload off all the other parents work".

YANBU. If you have three young children you need time as far away as possible from small people once-in-a-while, especially if you're studying as well.

I feel very strongly about this; if early years education is that important then ~50% of it shouldn't be so dependent on volunteers. About half of preschools in England are community run (charities). I know some are run well, but many struggle due to high turn over of (untrained, unqualified, inexperienced, however well-meaning & hard-working) committee members. Who are inspected by Ofsted & held up to the same standards as private expensive completely professionally run nurseries. It's a ridiculous model.

I gather that when "playgroups" were first established in 1960s & 1970s they were barely more than structured toddler groups. Then public funding became available & inspections started. But the inspection remit used to be much smaller, more about health & safety & whether there were any educational elements in the activities on offer. Expectations have transformed though, in last 15 yrs.

I know all the history means nothing if you're feeling sad for a group that might close, but it shouldn't fall on the guilt of people like you to decide its fate, anyway.

Karma, if the parents don't do those things then who will? The staff are there to care for the children, they are not admin staff, and besides which they can hardly do their own payroll if they worked more hours to do admin, fundraising etc, they'd have to be paid more, and the fees would go up, pricing most families out of it. FWIW, our playgroup gets a grant from the council of a bout £1k a year, the wages are paid by fees and everything else (new toys, craft supplies, trips) are paid for by fundraising.

You don't have to do a massive amount - do your rota duty, go to the meetings (even every other one or something) without taking on a named role, and help out at big fundraisers. That takes hardly anytime away from your other stuff.

Playgroups are not the same as nurseries, they are a community run resource and as such everyone has to do their bit.

OK, so preschools are underfunded, and shouldn't be.
I got the impression from the OP that in this case, staff that deal with kids are salaried, all the other positions are volunteer (e.g. accountant that pays the staff & sorts PAYE, invoices the parents), to save costs.
IMO wimbaway can(a) go to that group but be prepared to do her fair share of extra stuff (not carry all the parents who can't be arsed doing anythng, but just do her share), or (b) go to a different group which isn't as convenient and is an unknown quantity.
Personally I'd atempt to do (a). I agree that the group potentially closing due to lack of numbers isn't, and can't be, OPs responsibility, and shouldn't be a factor in the decision.

'This is why I'm tempted to just go elsewhere, but in doing that I also risk the group having to close due to low numbers.'
Well, if you sent dc3 elsewhere, this wouldn't be a problem for you, would it?

I don't see why you should help even if dc3 does attend the playgroup, it sounds like you've done your time and need to focus on your own training needs.

I am the secretary of our local playgroup and its people with attitudes like yours that makes it so hard to keep it going!!

Ours gets NO governent/council funding at all. The fees they charge cover the lease they pay the school,insurance and the play leaders wages. We pay for new toys/equipment through the kinds of fund raising you talk about.

Parents are told in no uncertain terms when they enquire about the group that they are required to help out-usually only a month-and that if they cant do it then they need to swap with another parent or get a gran/family member to take their place.

The group has not functioned as well this term because there are so many mums/parents who dont want to take their turn and it had caused a bad atmosphere.

I appreciate that many parents work full time now but playgroups wont be able to keep going if people dont pull their weight

Saying that it sounds like you have played an active role in the past so I dont blame you for wanting to take more or a back seat while you pursue a career.

Sorry I cant decide if you are bu or not!!

Surely if you use a facility that's helpedby volunteers, then you should be prepared to volunteer to do your share of what it takes to keep it going?

I don't get the attitude that you can let other people carry you. You wouldn't refuse to pay your share of a restaurant bill if it was split fairly between everyone, claiming that the food was "too expensive" (even though you knew before you ate what it would cost), or that you were too skint? So why would someone refuse to do their share of work to maintain a facility that they use, claiming that they don't think it should be necessary or that they're too busy? It's the same thing.

I don't think this is what the OP was suggesting, incidentally, but some of the replies seem to be saying just that.

Optimistic, I think part of the problem here, is that this group is kind of like a nursery, in that it has paid staff, rather than the parent/church volunteers that you usually associate with playgroups. It is also getting funding from the state to cover the child care provision that parents can access once their children are 3. It's a business in that sense, rather than an informal group.

While it is totally reasonable to expect parents to help out with individual sessions on a rota basis, it seems to need far more 'professional' help.

I'm not sure it can work out long term, because the parents will change every year or two and it's relying on them being replaced by parents who are also willing and able to take charge of payroll and responsibility for fundraising.

I think the parents who are using the group for their state funded 15 hours, are going to want that time to themselves, rather than using vast amounts of it, ensuring that this 'business' survives. There's nothing really in it for them, because they could get those 15 hours elsewhere and not have to do anything (or much) in return.

I'm not making value judgements about the rights and wrongs of that. For myself, if it was a fantastic group and I genuinely had the time, I'd be willing to do my bit. I wouldn't be willing to do way more than my fair share. I think it's reasonable to ask parents to help out with group sessions or do one off tasks, but not reasonable to expect them to do payroll regularly or be responsible for revenue raising.

It's tough, but possibly this group isn't destined to survive. From the OP's pov, she isn't swerving her responsibilities - she's spent time helping out and now feels she has done her bit.