to think I might not have done DS1 any favours by raising him a pacifist?

[GhostOfAWasp]

I've always taught him that we don't hit people no matter what, and he's grown up so far to be a very loving, sensitive boy. (ive raised DS2 the same way but he's ignored me and takes no prisoners! They're almost 4 and 6.)

Ds1 got punched in the face today. He didn't respond to the boy but came straight to me in tears- I didn't actually see what happened but the boy came to apologise. I don't want either of my boys to be brawlers at all, but I do sometimes worry if I've set him up for a fall, and if maybe he's going to end up being targeted because he doesnt fight back? Teaching him to hit back doesn't sit well with me though. AIBU?

I think that teaching them that hitting back is not the default response is probably sensible, but I think that teaching them to never hit back regardless of the circumstances is foolhardy. In the example you give, then the boy apologised- they are at the age where they make mistakes like this and learn from them.

On the other hand, I have sent DD, also nearly 6, to martial arts classes so that she knows how to defend herself and crucially when she should do so. I believe wholeheartedly in self defence.

ismeyes i totally agree; being able to stand-up for yourself physically when absolutely needed is very important.

which martial art, by the way? - want to start my boys soon too!

No,

I have to rase my children not to hit, DS1 is nearer to 7 foot than 6, DS2 will be bigger,

If my husband hit someone (he never has) he has always worried that he might kill them, they are all far to big to choose anything other than the gentle giant route,

It will work well for him later in life when his friends realise he a gentleman, it did for DS1,

he'll get far more of a pasting if he is ready with his fists, it opens up more as a target,

try Judo, it very controlled, no punching but allows you to deal with other peoples aggression against you, mine love it, they are very good at installing in the children you never attack.

I used to tell my 3 DS's to give them a bloody hard shove and put them on their arses if someone hit them.

DS1 would shove them over and then stand and fight if they got back up again, DS2 (the pacifist) would shove them over and then go and tell someone and DS3 is probably a mixture of the two.

I think telling them to shove rather than punch, is the best way really. It's not actually fighting, but they're not allowing anyone to get away with mistreating them either.

Would you encourage a DD to fight back?

Or are you encouraging a boy to fight back?

Or do you think self defence like Judo is more important?

I don't think boys should be encouraged to fight as it just perpetuates males using violence in the world and I don't think that's a good thing.

There's a big difference between encouraging fighting and encouraging kids to defend themselves.

I certainly wouldn't allow someone to punch me in the face and then run off and tell someone.

I would fight them off and then run and tell someone.

It's a very fine line with children though because they're not always mature enough to know the difference between hitting/shoving someone just enough to stop them...and going OTT.

Yes, I'd encourage a DD to fight back and I do! My DD does taekwondo and I can't rate it highly enough for both self defence and life skills. Yes they do teach the actual kicks and punches needed for competitions, but they do this alongside lessons on bullying, assertiveness, first aid, teamwork and many others. Self defence is not punching someone unless that is the minimum force absolutely necessary to protect yourself.

She started at age 4 BTW Poppadum, if you are in Devon I can give you the contact - its very highly rated here.

I'm with worra. The line is too easily blurred when hitting back becomes ok. Maybe being less of a verbal pacifist IYSWIM. A damned good shouting at by your DS shows confidence and determination. Shout at, stand firm then calmly walk away (to tell someone) means he seems confident but not drawn into fist fighting.

"It's not actually fighting" you don't see how pushing someone over provokes tensions and makes more extreme violence more likely to follow? Okay.

I started my DS1 to be pacifist too.

Him being bullied for his loveliness made me see the error in that.

Coming and 'telling' is fine when they are 6 but once theyget to secondary school/age they will be slaughtered.

Aribura

If someone has just punched you/kicked you/assaulted you in any way at all....giving them an almighty shove and putting them on their arse will stop them in their tracks.

Or it will at least give my kids enough time to get away and tell someone.

Allowing someone to simply assault you is (imo) far more likely to provoke more extreme violence from that person.

Bullies are cowards and if they think they're going to be allowed to hit you once, they're hardly likely to stop at one punch are they?

I don't know one single person (adult) who I think would solve a problem with physical action, pushing, hitting, whatever. I don't want to know anyone like that. The adults I know have all managed to develop assertiveness so as to deal with obnoxious idiots without resorting to aggression themselves.

So why would I want my kids to do anything else?

It isn't a choice between hitting back or doing nothing. It's about learning how to deflect aggression from other people while staying in control of the situation. For a 6 yr old, passmethecrisps approach is a good one.

iheart what would you do if you were standing in a pub or walking down the road and someone came up and started hitting you?

Would you allow them to continue?

Or would you fight them off enough to get away?

There are a lot of adults out there who solve problems with violence. Who use violence on others and who resort to violence to impose their power.

That is what needs to be stopped. That is what schools should be looking at.

It is important to teach your child how to react if someone attacks them.

It is more important that the person doing it is stopped and held properly responsible for their actions - or what kind of adult will they turn into?

I totally agree enimmead

Also, from experience some schools will have zero-tolerance to physical fighting meaning that any response other than hands up in defence will result in short-term exclusion. The reasoning being that it can be impossible to work out who started it.

It is sad that secondary school is seen as such a zoo. It is more likely that a child known as a fighter will get into fights. To pick a fight with a
Non-fighter is seen as a unfair in my area

Send him to one of the martial arts...they'e very good at showing DC how to defendd themselves without violence.

Most people are never randomly assaulted surely. I can understand OP
Being upset and wondering if her approach is wrong immediately after her child gets punched. However, there are key facts here - he and the other child are 6. There is a fairly high chance the boy will never be hit again. I am not sure if bringing him up to believe that he could be assaulted at any time is necessary.

I would not allow tm to continue because I would run/ scream/ duck and dodge.

But does this happen to you?

If I thought I was at risk of being hit I would get out of there. If someone appeared angry with me I would ask them why. I do not appear nervous when I am out and about, I am assertive and confident. I also take the measure of other people around me who seem wired or stressed. I do not get into situations where I am likely to be hit.

This is a story which does have a happy ending.
When I was 20, I met a girl who was backpacking in Malaysia. Due to a cockup, she ended up in a dorm with several Malaysian men.

During the night, one of the men tried to touch her.
Without realising she was the Scottish Kickboxing champion.

Big mistake :)

It could have been much worse - and I know that goes against what I have said, but I think self defence and controlled use of force if need be is useful for some people.

iheart it has happened to many people I know yes...though admittedly only a few females.

Perhaps it's an area thing?

Either way, If you couldn't run/scream/duck or dodge, I do strongly suspect you'd do what you could to fight them off...even if that included giving them an almighty shove.

Worra I would never hit anyone back, I would try to get away. I am small, I am weak and I don't fancy getting stabbed. The one time I was attacked, I just stood there and took it. The friend I was with later told me that one of the girls attacking me had a knife, so thank God I did.

That's fair enough yellow we are all different.

When my DS(20) was 15yrs old he was racially attacked and had a knife held to his throat. He didn't fight back either because he knew better.

However, when he was punched by a bully at school he stopped him in his tracks and pushed him flying.

The bully never touched him again after that.

It's a difficult thing to teach children, but I would never and could never teach my kids to allow other people to hit them and not at least shove them away so they can go and get help.

There's shoving a kid at school and there's shoving someone on the street. It's all well and good if they're similarly sized but I wouldn't stand a chance against most people.

Most self defence classes advise against attacking an attacker back, generally because if they've attacked you, they are probably a bit of a twat and not bothered about getting violent.