to not help FIL get a job

[Chelvis]

I'm a long term lurker, don't really post, but would appreciate some persepective on this. Sorry it's a bit long.

I have a part time freelance business - don't want to say what, in case it reveals who I am! I have previously done this job part time alongside my full time job, and now do it as a SAHM. It pays pretty well but, unless you're in a big city, it's pretty much impossible to make it a full time career. I work anywhere from 2 hours to 10 hours a week for several different clients.

FIL has decided that he wants to get into this line of work. He knows next to nothing about it, only what he thinks it involves. He wants me to teach him everything I know, basically - set him up with my clients, show him how to do it, talk him through the process. To set him up in business really. I don't think he has the skills to really do a good job and will find it very hard - I know he will be coming to me with lots of questions and almost expecting me to do the job for him until he gets the hang of it, which could be a long time, if ever!

It's not only the time I am concerned about though. There is a limited amount of work available. If I introduce him to my clients, there is a very very high chance that, because of his greater availability, he will take away a lot of my work. With small children at home and only one income, the money really helps us, and I don't want to lose it.

I have asked DH to speak to him about it, to explain how he would be taking away my income and that it's not really fair to expect me to HELP him do that! Dh won't though - he doens't want to be rude and he says they really need to get some money coming. However, he acknowledges that it will be a problem for us not to have that money. He feels stuck in the middle, so won't do anything and doesn't want me to be rude by saying anything.. Bloody helpful, thanks DH.

It's true that they do need the money too, but - and this is so I don't dripfeed - I don't have an awful lot of sympathy for their situation. FIL had retrained for several jobs, never seems happy with any of them, always talking about moving onto the next big moneymaking scheme. He has chosen to be freelance in his current field to avoid the stress of a permanent job, so his income is erratic, but IMO, that's his own choice. MIL doesn't work, still a SAHM apparently (despite 'children' being adults, but that's a whole other story...)

AIBU for not helping? And if not, HTH do I say 'no' without causing offence?

I'm another one agreeing don't give your contacts to your FIL. Both for the income issue AND the reputation issue, and I second travelcot's suggestion of a lockable cupboard/filing cabinet for your work related items.

And given your DH's spineless attitude, I'd also suggest not giving HIM a key either.

Contacts are a precious asset, and not to be given up lightly.

What bumptiousandbustly said.
Interesting that he's retrained several times and never made a go of any of the actual jobs. I have an uncle exactly like that who has taken handouts of many thousands from my mum (his sister) several times to "set him up" in various businesses. She's done so (her money, her choice) until he finally became a media studies teacher and then an alcoholic.
Point out to your DH that doubtless your FIL's plans will go exactly the same way as all his others, but no need to bring your business down too. If you close this one down, he'll probably be onto another "sure thing" very shortly.
And emphasise to FIL how little money your business makes. He may imagine that a large part of your family income derives from your work.

Your fil is a selfish prick.

I think you'd be stark staring mad to give him your client list. Even if he decides he's bored of this line of work a few months down the line, your clients might then think less favourably of you for putting him in touch with them.

Thanks everyone for replying, sorry I had to disappear for a while there. I'm feeling a lot more sure about saying 'No. And don't be so bloody rude to ask' now.

DH isn't usually this spineless, but he isn't strong enough IMO when it comes to family issues. He feels guilty, I think, that he's done so well and is financially now (as a young man) pretty much as comfortable as his father is (a man near retirement). He is generous to a fault at times, but I know I need to give him a kick and point out that he can't be generous with my income! I think he also worries that if I won't help him, they won't help us anymore with occasional childcare or house repairs etc (all very occasional - we help them with stuff too, like errands or lifts). That does worry me a bit too.

I think what's also clouding the issue a bit is that this isn't my 'career' per se - it's not what I trained in, or my full time job when not a SAHM - it's something I fell into, that I was surprisingly good at and decided to make a go of, because of the income, not the love of it. I think DH wouldn't dream of be so casual about my 'vocation'. But I am putting my foot down, I need this work and I'm not handing it over.

As for protecting my contacts and data, pretty much all my stuff is stored elecronically so he wouldn't be able to access it (doesn't have the ability - yet thinks he can do a job that needs significant ICT skills. sigh).

I'm 90% sure I'm not going to help him ... the 10% is thinking that maybe I'll give him the contacts for a couple of companies I don't work for anymore because they're bloody hard work and not really worth the effort

Chelvis, this might not be your original career, but it is your career now. Lots of people are primarily motivated by the earning potential of their chosen careers, rather than love of the job, in itself. Doing it for the money is not wrong and doesn't make it worth less than a 'vocation' type career.

So maybe adjust your mindset, a little too. It's great that you have found something, where you excel and that gives you enough money for all of life's nice things, like holidays. Don't undervalue it, in your own mind, either.

I am shocked! Your FIL is taking the piss! You absolutely must not let him have any client info, that would completely undermine your clients trust in you. It it even legal to give him this information?

Send him a price list for your consultancy fees, making it clear that you will charge for every minute of your time and knowledge. If he objects act surprised. As you have been communicating through your DH you could easily not have realised that he was expecting anything for free! Then if he says he shouldn't pay you act completely astonished and refuse to understand what he is talking about.

And no way does he get to see sensitive information about actual clients. If he wants to set himself up in the same line of work he has to go and get his own clients. How on earth could he possibly have thought otherwise?

lurking to see what FIL says....

Er, this is ridiculous.

In what possible alternative reality does anyone think it is acceptable to say to someone "I rather fancy your job. Can I have it please? And by the way you need to help me learn how to do it"

Of course you shouldn't be bloody well giving him your clients. The only appropriate response to this demand is "Um, are you joking?"

I'm sure I remember a thread on here a while ago about family members wanting a MNer and her DH to hand over a family business to them.

I might be imagining things though....

FIL has a nerve, but he also sounds desperate. I'd refuse, pointing out that family and business don't mix (relatives/friends in business fail more) and that your contacts are the most precious thing a business has, you can't just hand them out.

However, given his desperation it sounds like you will cause offence, but it really isn't your fault, he has no business asking this of you.

Your FIL is basically trying to take food out of the mouths of his grandchildren

Bit melodramatic, but nowt wrong with the occasional oversimplification of a complex issue

Actually, I do have some experience of dealing with an ex friend who was just like your FIL (note the use of the term 'ex').

She essentially believed that everyone should have the same amount of everything, money especially. If one person had more than her, then it just followed that the person in question should give her some money - and I do mean actual money, not just 'benefits in kind'. The extent to which she took the piss really had to be seen to be believed.

To give you an example, after a night out (which we had agreed in advance to split the cost of) she split the costs not equally between the 6 of us, nor even according to how much we had drunk/eaten. She actually split it according to what she believed we earned, and based this on our houses, clothes, holidays etc.

The (almost) funny thing was, when we called her on it, she genuinely saw nothing wrong with this, to her, it was fair - those who had more money should pay more. It didn't even dawn on her that those with more money had worked very hard for it.

Unfortunately, attitudes around fairness and sharing run very deep and I doubt your FIL will see anything at all wrong with his outrageous behaviour.

I am amazed that it has even got to the point where you are considering this!

If you worked in Tesco's but wouldn't be poverty stricken without the money, does that mean your FIL would be entitled to ask for your wages because he ditched his job so is poorer than you?

I agree with the post that Bumptious made, and the comments that data protection laws forbid you passing on client details. However, you could sweeten this and appear to be helpful by sendng your FIL details of training providers / college courses covering this field.

I'm Just stunned that FIL thinks this is an acceptable demand!

YANBU to help him get A JOB, however YABU to help him get YOUR JOB.

Don't do it, you've not worked hard, built up your contacts to hand it to him on a plate.

Imagine it's not your client list, your time, your willingness(Ha!) to train him to do your job, your income, that your FIL wanted. Imagine it wassomething more physical, such as your car or your sofa. If he expected you to hand these over, would you or your DH even consider saying yes? Of course not! Same difference IMO.

And I fully agree with BumptiousandBustly, if you were to give him your clients they wouldn't come back to you after he fucked up/got bored and moved onto his next pipedream. They would see you as responsible for their inconvenience and reach for their bargepole. No, far too risky to your reputation.

I would be most disappointed in my DH if he had been so spineless and pliant with his father.

So your FIL and your husband think its ok for you to have to effectively give your work away? I've never heard anything as cheeky and entitled in my life. If FIL wants to start a freelance business then he needs to do it himself and not expect someone else to spoon feed him.

Your DH needs to grow a pair

I can't imagine what line of work you are in-I can't think of any where this would be ok!!?

What have you decided to do, OP? Why is your DH so eager to belittle your successes here?

It is your career. You've spend 10 years building up your contact list ffs!

Tell fil to do one, cheeky fucker.

So he's asking you to train him for free, in skills he would have to pay a lot of money for to be taught at college.

Then he wants you to mentor him, for free, while he gets the hang of the business.

He wants you to hand over a valuable client list so he can poach clients from you. Which means that your income will suffer and your family, including his son and grandchildren, will lose money because of him. And it doesn't matter how much you say you do or don't need it, nobody can afford to give up income these days and even less afford to give up a client list and client trust just for family loyalties.

And while he is doing all that he will expect you to give up your time to work with him so he can pretend to his new customers, who he has stolen from you, that he can do as good a job as you without telling them you are actually still doing it.

Then he will either try and fail on his own because he really doesn't have the skills, interest or experience in the business or, if his past form is anything to go on, he will get bored and give it all up for something else.

No. Just no. Anyone who expects you to fall in with and be happy about that is wrong. Don't do it and don't worry about the repercussions. Your FIL obviously cares very little for you and the implications this can have on your business and career, especially if he thinks that he can just take the contacts you have worked hard for years to build. He's looking for an easy way to do something you have built up the hard way and that's not on. Why worry about upsetting someone who cares so little about upsetting you?

Building up contacts in any industry takes time and effort. Why should he get to bypass that? And then poach your work?!

Try and explain it to your DP in terms he'd understand. eg say your DP is a kitchen fitter. Someone asks him to do a job, he sends a mate instead, who floods the kitchen. Obviously he looks bad!

In the words of Zammo: Just say no!

It's not unreasonable for your fil to ask for your help to get a job. However he isn't trying to find a job, he's trying to take your job.

Quite frankly I'd be very offended by this and want to tell him where to get off.

letseatgrandma, that has really made me laugh! I now have that song, and an image of very drugged up Zammo in my head!!