To consider strike action?

[IsabelArcher]

Seriously considering telling my family - H, DS11, DDs 18/16 - that I will no longer act as their skivvy.

I am sick of having to pick up after them. They all leave everything where they finished with it, whether it's bags and shoes, fruit debris, opened and unopened post, empty packets/milk cartons, pens, scissors. So not only is the house a constant tip, we can never find anything!

I have tried reasoning, stick and carrot, pleading and they all will buck up for a couple of days but soon slide back. If I actually catch them in the process of walking away from an abandonned item, they will look sheepish and clear it without too much fuss. but it just doesn't seem to ever occur to any of them without prompting.

I work 5-6 days a week, half from home, other half a four-hour round trip away, when I leave house at dinner time and not home til around midnight.

H works normal FT hours so is actually in the house for less time but works a couple of hours fewer. So my non-work times are more traditional house-work times IYSWIM.

It's not that he doesn't do anything, does a couple of loads of washing at w/e, hoovers when really grotty. And the kids will generally muck in when requested. But it's the never-ending drip of stuff just left lying around that's 'doin my head in'

So Aibu to say I will do nothing for any of them - cooking, ironing etc - until they learn to pick up after themselves.

Sit them down and tell them that life is a contract. Your side of the bargain is to provide clean clothes and decent food, theirs is to put their clothes out for cleaning and to keep rubbish and clutter to a minimum. If they don't fulfil their side of the contract, you don't yours. So, clean house, means clean clothes and food, mucky house, no clothes washed and no dinner cooked.

Mine did get a shock the day I served half a dinner because only half the job had been done. Funny, not happened since.

As a parent, one of your responsibilities is to teach your children how to live independently in the real world. This means preparing them to be able to fit in with society, follow rules, face consequences, be responsible for their own actions, etc.

Doing it for them may seem kind and 'nurturing' but doesn't do them any favours in the long run. You are not providing them with the tools to cope. At the very least your 18 year old should be responsibile for cooking one meal a week for the family (including planning, budgeting and shopping for it).

My 12 year old ds can do everything for himself that I can do (except drive). I am not kidding, he can cook, clean, wash clothes, iron, garden, sew, budget, shop, etc. He picks up after himself (most of the time) and only puts up a token resistance if I ask him to help with jobs. We get everything done together as a family and it leaves us with much more free time to do more fun stuff together.

the rules I had when I had 3 teens living with us were:

you do your own washing - and you do not leave wet washing in the machine or I will dump it on your bed - wet.

you do not just help yourself to food that is meant for main meals, and you do not leave a pile of dirty pots and empty cartons - if you do, they will also be dumped on your bed

you do not leave your crap littering the communal living areas, your bedroom can be as disgusting as you like, but as I am not going to go in there to tidy it, that is your problem

I did carry out the washing threat, and the dirty pots threat, and only had to do both the once for them to realise that I was serious.

My DH never put anything away and I just started binning anything he left lying around for more than 24 hours. that meant he had to root through the bin to find stuff or he lost it for good.

Drastic (and expensive for him) but he soon got the idea that I was not there to pick up after him.

The 18yo does cook once a week or so - but only if I provide the ingredients. 16yo can knock up something for herself and a family load of pasta if pressed.

And all three will muck in with housework if asked. Dd1 who manges to mix slovenliness with a neurotic fear of dirt often cleans the bathroom off her own bat.

Yes, I can see where I went wrong parenting wise, but as I say not sure I really knew where to start, only that I wanted to be far more nurturing than my mum ever was and obviously overcompensated.

ok, so now what are you going to do? I like the wet washing on your bed idea.

how to sort out yourr dh is going to be the hardest. he is setting a bad example.

I will have the talk tonight when we all convene for Sunday roast. I think I'll stick with kids. H gets very defensive if he thinks I'm lumping him with them, unsurprisingly. But if you act like a child ..

If I can get them sorted with the combination of the bucket of doom, and of xbox and clothes washing sanctions, it may become more obvious to him how much stuff is actually his - it can be difficult to see unless you're the one sorting it

Fairenuff has set me thinking for the first time about my relationship with my mum, which is very unnerving. Maybe another thread brewing :(

Well we had the talk and had very little resistance! DS raced round picking up all his stuff, terrified that I might dock his Xbox time! Both girls appeared to take me seriously too!

H, as expected, assumed it was aimed just at them and almost turned it into a huge row which I was trying hard to avoid. He's very PA with the girls, can never ask a straight question, it's always 'dd1 is there something wrong your legs today? I only ask as you seem not to have been able to walk the dishwasher with that dirty plate'.

Drives her loopy, particularly as he'll be surrounded by coffee mugs and glasses!

I digress. Time will tell if I've been able to make a difference. Thank you all for the advice. Will report back on progress!

A bit ! happy there. Not as demented as that makes me sound

It's a start Isabel but frankly I see your dh as a pivotal part of the problem. Unless his attitude changes too I don't think you will solve this. He sees you as his wife, an extension of himself, not a person in your own right. He also views your children the same way. What gives him the right to sit on his arse making snidy comments to your dds?

Who do you think should be responsible for the housework?

Who does he think should be responsible?

I think that's where you will find the centre of the problem.

bloody hell... you poor dd. what a hypocrite he is. the problem definitely comes from him. what does he say to your son? is his attitude different?

You're getting scary now Fairenuff! You've asked questions that months of counselling have failed to uncover :)

Not sure how to answer, really. I think he recognises h/w is a joint responsibility, but suspect it includes an element of 'helping' me. I also don't think he gets how messy he is and is convinced if the kids were tidier I'd be less stressy. But pound for pound he probs produces more mess than the rest of them put together!

Red, he does get DS to tidy but in a much less snide way. I asked DS to put some games away, so he asked his dad to move his bag out of the way of the cupboard. DH refused , not sure why, cos I had to walk out before snarled at him. DS moved the bag :(

Isabel sometimes it's just so hard to see when you're in the thick of it, but to an outsider looking in it's much clearer.

Talking about it here will help as you start to see what your dh's behaviour is really like. It's already starting to affect your children though, as you are all pussy footing around your dh so that you don't upset him. This is not good.

For example, why did you have to walk away before you snarled. What's wrong with sticking up for your ds and letting your dh see that. I know it's hard but with time and support you can learn to stand up to him a bit more and see where it leads you.

Either he will recognise that he's being an arse, apologise and back down, or he will get worse in an attempt to assert his 'right' to tell everyone else what to do.

H and I have subjected the kids to too many rows. It's a long, miserable tale and we are probably in the end game now. He's been in the spare room since Christmas. Would probs have moved out if finances were better.

I've been trying to sort out ways that I can make myself happier in myself and the state of the house is something that constantly gets me down , so the op was a step in that direction. I'm hoping that if I can sort issues one at a time I can get a grip on what's really happening - untangle 20 years of my marriage. :(

Now I feel like a bit if a fraud.

You can't fix your marriage on your own. No matter how hard you try, you can't change the fundamental problems. In fact, you can't change your dh at all, that has to come from him. If it's what he wants.

The only thing you can do is decide how much you want to 'put up with', what you want to teach your children, how you want to spend your future.

Very difficult and scary, but ultimately you only get one life, don't waste it.

Why do you feel like a fraud?

Oh, isabel this made for sad reading in the end. You sound great and have a great sense of humour. When I was about 12ish my mum just stopped with housework (I mean beyond cooking and washing clothes - everything else stopped). I recognise now that she was worn down beyond return and, probably, very depressed. At 15 I told her I didn't know why she didn't leave my dad. She was astonished to hear that I wouldn't blame her. Prior to this point though my siblings carried on like pigs in their sty - piles and piles of mouldy plates and maggots crawling out the bin. I, however, couldn't stand it and learned how to keep a house. Sadly, at the time I did blame her. I remember thinking that she couldn't even be a decent housewife - poor woman worked 12 hour shifts.

Anyway, I mucked in. Mum recovered slowly over many years and my parents and now happy as clams. What I wish mum had done earlier was ask me for help - tell me what was getting her down. I could have stepped in earlier. You've done this.

Finally! Don't let your DH talk to your children like that. It will lead to massive resentment which will, in turn, cause them to stop doing their bit.

Stick at it

Oh :( Isabel you sound so squashed by it all. I know the feeling, have had days like that too! but to be trying to deal with it while struggling with a totally unsupportive husband must be such hard work.

Fairy's right though, only get one life and it's far too short to be fighting battles that are impossible to win. One thing at a time is all very well and good, but maybe its the marriage that needs to be sorted before you start on the clutter? do you feel up to a thread in relationships about it all? might be a little more gentle than AIBU

Thank you, all, for being so lovely.

I feel like a fraud because I tried to sneak under the radar. Should've known I couldnt get anything past the MN crack team! Though I'm not sure I'm ready for gimlet stare of Relationships yet :)

I know it must seem like I'm trying to hide the elephant in the room under a pile of clutter, but I think I've come to the conclusion that neither of us is going anywhere soon, that I have to make the best of a lousy hand.

There are lots of long term problems in the marriage but since he moved into the spare room things have settled into a civil calmness. We generally do co-parent reasonably well, particularly separately it seems pointless to disrupt things further

Passmethecrisps, your story is so sad. I don't think I've reached the stage of your mum, but I do sense, in their own untidy ways, the DDs are trying to be otherwise supportive. Which again makes me feel guilty as I don't think that's their role as teenagers

if you can cope with AIBU I'm sure you can manage a thread in relationships! :) when you're ready though of course

Aibu about messy kids is much easier to face than knowing I'll be exposed as a failure for not protecting them from a did functional marriage for most, if not all of their lives:(

disfunctional

Now you've got me thinking ... How normal is this?

Dd1 and I decided to sand and repaint the front door over the bank holiday. It's needed doing for ages. H sees what we're doing, claims a colour veto, and then decides to help, by getting out the sander. I had looked for sander earlier but it was buried under two bed frames in the cellar, dumped months ago by H and waiting for him to take to dump cos he's not paying the council!

Anyways, a week on, sander is still sitting in hallway, he got bored after 30 mins or so. It's right there when you open front door. Not even been packed back into its case. I refuse to mention it, he has had to walk past it for the last 7 days he knows it's there. Or I'm I being petty. It'd only take a couple of mins to shift?

The last time my dh got the electric sander out of the box and left it lying around the cat did a huge wee in the case! not sure that's entirely helpful here though...

As for failure to protect the kids - you can't change what has already happened, all you can do is take action now. Your choice is to either continue living in an unhappy situation or take steps to change that situation. If the marriage isn't working then it's relate (or similar) or time for someone to move out.

What colour did you want to paint the front door? was it something totally outrageous?

The thing is Isabel it's difficult circumstances for your children to grow up in. They learn about relationships from their parents so it will be very confusing for them.

I agree with becky, the past is the past and you cannot change that but staying in this environment and papering over the cracks is probably not the best choice for the future.

Your son is young yet and still has a lot to learn. Do you want him to turn out like his dad? Do you think he will have happy, healthy, equal relationships with women?

What about just looking at your options again? Have you seen a solicitor to find out where you would stand if you separated? It will be difficult financially but so worth it in the long run. Or it might be the shock your dh needs to make him realise you are serious and that things will change one way or another.

The sander in the hallway? After everything you've said, he is just going to leave it there. He really doesn't give two hoots about anything you say.

Thank you both for taking the time to listen to me whinging on and reply to me.

The easiest question first: we wanted bottle green, it's now a navy blue.

I haven't seen a solicitor, no, mainly because there's nothing to split, apart from the house, which has very little equity in it, and loads of debts, mostly acquired propping up his business, that eventually folded. We earn similar amounts now, enough to keep going together, but not to support two households.

He's nothing like some of the men you read about on here, we've just made too many bad choices and over 20 years kept hoping thingswould improve. 'we''ll be fine after we get thru the baby stage ... when the business takes off... When we move ... ' but that time just never seems to arrive :(

We tried to lots of relate last year, about 12 weeks in all. It helped a little in that lots of resentments were aired, which made everything less angry, but not sure we got as far as really forgiving each other for some things, some of which go back 16 years or more.

And in the interests of fairness, so you don't waste too much sympathy on me, I stupidly threw an emotional affair into the mix :(