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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be shocked this is legal and there's little I can do?

51 replies

adviceadvice · 08/06/2012 16:14

I started a new job a few weeks ago. It's a part-time job working 22 hours. During and after the interview I made it clear that I have two children and cannot be flexible because of child-care ie cannot work shifts and have to have set days and hours. I wanted to be as open as possible to avoid the situation I'm now in.

Shortly after accepting the job I agreed with my new manager that I would work Mondays, tuesdays and wednesdays. This was after she was trying to get me to work my 22 hrs over 4 or 5 days. So some days coming in for just 2 hours. I explained I couldn't do this as I could only commit to three days so I could spread my childcare bill over 3 days rather than 5. I explained that if I had to pay childcare over 5 days (nursery, breakfast club and afterschool club) plus commuting costs I would lose money - my total outgoings would exceed my total wage by a lot. I suggested if she wanted someone flexible she should hire someone else. She said they wanted me hence how we agreed current working hours.

A week or so into new job new manager tells me I will have to start working to a new 'timetable'. I explain again that I can't. I have all my childcare in place to work three full days. School and nursery will not let me change the days I need them on an adhoc basis. The next day she sends me an email to my home address asking how much notice so I need to work to a 'new timetable'. She doesn't even attach the 'new' timetable she wants me to work to.

I rang Acas today and they said that what my employer has done is perfectly legal. They can change my working days and hours verbally with no notice (although Acas recommend to employers they give notice to their staff which is what my employer has done)

I can't believe employers can legally do this. Agree with an employee one thing and then the next change their mine. All I can do, according to Acas, is go down a grievance route. I have to email employer saying I can't change my hours but the employer is free to disregard this.

AIBU to think employment law in this country is an absolute joke.

OP posts:

AdventuresWithVoles · 08/06/2012 16:16

Give her notice, work the notice out, & see how much she enjoys going thru the costs & bother of more interviews & training somebody new up?

halcyondays · 08/06/2012 16:17

Do you have a contract that sets out your working hours and days?

Original poster

adviceadvice · 08/06/2012 16:19

No contract as yet. Acas say an employer has 2 months before they need to give an employee a contract. I have a written email from manager agreeing to the hours I now work but she has put in a 'these hours may be subject to change' in the fine print which stupidly I didn't take notice of at the time. I thought she meant coming in earlier or later on the days we agreed, not working different days on rota type basis...

OP posts:

DizzyKipper · 08/06/2012 16:23

That is rubbish, very frustrating for you. Can you look for a new job and hand your notice in with this one - explaining the reason?

Fizzybee · 08/06/2012 16:23

I've had the same I had to quit

Original poster

adviceadvice · 08/06/2012 16:28

fizzybee you didn't go down a grievance route then? I am reluctant to do this but neither do I want to quit. I actually like the job! And desperately need the money.

OP posts:

PandaWatch · 08/06/2012 16:29

It sounds like you weren't suitable for the job in the first place as they clearly need someone who can be more flexible and you had been open about your constraints. YANBU to be annoyed as it sounds like it's all been a massive waste of your time.

She may just be trying it on though - maybe just write back and reiterate that you can't change the hours that were agreed for the reasons already given.

Good luck!

halcyondays · 08/06/2012 16:31

How annoying. It may be legal but it sounds like they have messed you around. If they had wanted someone who could be flexible they should have made it plain from the start. You often see jobs advertised that say you must be flexible. It's just a waste of everybody's time otherwise.

Original poster

adviceadvice · 08/06/2012 16:31

Panda absolutely! I am the wrong person for the job, they need a part time worker who can chop and change working days and hours at a moments notice. Are there many people able to do this? Even women (or men) who don't have childcare committments work part-time for a reason. My friend works only 2 days a week, she doesn't have children, but studies for a degree the other 3 days.

OP posts:

halcyondays · 08/06/2012 16:35

Yes, it wouldn't suit many people, students and anyone with youngish children can't be totally flexible. Maybe someone who doesn't have children but only wants to work part time or someone whose children are much older so childcare isn't an issue.

Journey · 08/06/2012 16:43

They can legally do this if the contract of employment states that hours and days can be changed. Unfortunately, you can't put forward a grievance since you haven't worked in your employment for a year. In other words unless it is a discrimation issue or a breach of contract you don't have a case.

It must be totally frustrating for you. It is a shame you're being treated like this especially when you were being honest with them from the start. I hope things get better for you.

Original poster

adviceadvice · 08/06/2012 16:48

journey acas say I can go down grievance procedure despite only being in job a few weeks.

OP posts:

PandaWatch · 08/06/2012 16:51

The problem is you are unlikely to get anywhere with it as they will rely on the fact their offer email stipulates that the hours may vary.

DamnBamboo · 08/06/2012 16:55

If you genuinely can't change your hours to be a little more flexible, then all you can do is hand in your notice. Of course it is legal, an employer can change the hours they want you to work as long as it's contractually stipulated that they can (and most contract will say this).

Whilst you've been as open as you can, it's not reasonable to think that in theory you'd always have these hours with no devations from it. It's just shitty that they've done this now, so early, especially after you've been so honest about it.

Make a formal complain to HR noting that you'd only just agreed the hours you are working so why the sudden change and then hand in your notice.

Also, directly call your boss on why she has done this? It could be that this is coming from above her and that she doesn't have much control over this.

AdventuresWithVoles · 08/06/2012 17:00

Friend works for airlines and the Airport nursery specifically allows for shift working, in business hours at least, because that's what Airport workers need, so that childcare is very flexible one week to the next. Probably pay a premium for that, of course.

Doubt it's an option for OP, but something to consider for anyone who finds themselves with similar dilemma.

skybluepearl · 08/06/2012 17:02

Dear xxx,

I thought I'd better respond quickly to your email. As previously mentioned, I am unable to change my working days due to childcare costs/commitments. I am under the impression that you need someone who is able to offer much more flexibility than I am able to. If you prefer I can hand my notice in so that you can look for a more employee with less commitments, although I would be very disappointed to leave as I am really enjoying the new post.

Regards, xxx

PanickingIdiot · 08/06/2012 17:23

I wouldn't bother offering to quit, just say you can't do it and leave the ball in their court. They can always decide not to keep you after the trial period, but why volunteer to leave if you otherwise enjoy the job?

If they won't budge I wouldn't bother with grievance or anything, you stand to gain nothing but waste a lot of time and energy. Better spend that looking for a new job if you must.

inabeautifulplace · 08/06/2012 17:31

How would you stand re benefits if you handed in your notice? I wouldn't resign, make them terminate your contract. They might just be calling your bluff, stay strong!

Original poster

adviceadvice · 08/06/2012 17:44

damnbamboo it's not about me being 'a little bit more flexible'. Having my working days and hours changed regularly with little notice is not what I'd describe as being 'a little bit more flexible'. This is an office job not a shift based job like eg a nurse. The core office working hours are 08.30 to 5.30pm. I can work three days a week to this pattern, just cannot change my days on a whim when I have a child in nursery.

OP posts:

notmyproblem · 08/06/2012 17:46

What panickingidiot and beautifulplace said. Call her bluff. Don't offer to resign. Make them terminate your contract. That should take them a few weeks anyway... in the meantime redouble your efforts to find something else.

There's no way you can stay in this job if the hours change, right? So you have nothing to lose by continuing to resist the hours changing, forcing their hand, and all the while getting your CV out there to more places. You either end up staying where you are (with the hours you agreed to) or you end up finding something different.

Don't let yourself be pushed around on this. It won't help you to cave in to them or resign.

HomeEcoGnomist · 08/06/2012 18:01

journey - you absolutely can raise a grievance with less than a year's service - what you can't do is claim unfair dismissal. And for anyone who started a new job on or after 6 April this year, the qualifying period is now 2 years

OP - this point is probably academic for you: if you don't have a contract, it's probably fair to assume they don't have an HR dept, who would handle your grievance?

I can only echo the others advising you to resist the change - request a meeting to discuss why they want to change things now, it could be they are anticipating a problem they don't really have? Or they will have to dismiss you if they are no longer able to meet their business needs.

PurplePidjin · 08/06/2012 18:08

Are they not discriminating against you as a parent, though, by misleading you when they employed you?

JosieZ · 08/06/2012 18:08

Why did you complain by going on about childcare. You don't have to wave a big flag saying I have lots of responsibilities and I am not flexible. You should just say 'I can't do such and such' end of story. Other employees could have a second job, elderly relative, not want to spend more on travel to work or other reasons why they are not flexible. You are giving a snotty boss reasons to find you a 'difficult' employee.
Do what 'notyourproblem' recommends. With time you possibly can change to suit them but they sound as if they are being awkward so stand your ground.

DamnBamboo · 08/06/2012 18:09

Sorry OP I don't think I've expressed myself very well, I don't disagree with you and would be pissed off too.
I'm not suggesting you are wilfully being difficult, I'm saying that they're asking you to be more flexible (work to a new timetable) and you are saying you can't do it.

Are they going to give you different hours each week, every week or are asking for hours different to your existing ones, but the same each week (if that makes sense).

If the latter, there is usually more room to be accomodating, if the former, not so much.

DontmindifIdo · 08/06/2012 18:11

If you are still in your probationary period, if you raise a greivance you will be gone at the end of that probationary period - they might go through the motions of the greivance to show willing, but they won't bother keeping you as they don't have to.

Just e-mail back that as discussed on X and Y occasions, you can't change your hours and need to work 3 full days, if she needs to change which 3 days they are, could she let you know which day is to change and you'll see if you can get childcare for that day, if the nursery have a place you will be able to change the day, but it will be a premanent change, you can't change week by week.

If she can't settle to a set rosta for you, then you will need to leave. If they need someone who can change week by week, then they will let you go at the end of your probationary period anyway.

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