to be shocked this is legal and there's little I can do?

[adviceadvice]

I started a new job a few weeks ago. It's a part-time job working 22 hours. During and after the interview I made it clear that I have two children and cannot be flexible because of child-care ie cannot work shifts and have to have set days and hours. I wanted to be as open as possible to avoid the situation I'm now in.

Shortly after accepting the job I agreed with my new manager that I would work Mondays, tuesdays and wednesdays. This was after she was trying to get me to work my 22 hrs over 4 or 5 days. So some days coming in for just 2 hours. I explained I couldn't do this as I could only commit to three days so I could spread my childcare bill over 3 days rather than 5. I explained that if I had to pay childcare over 5 days (nursery, breakfast club and afterschool club) plus commuting costs I would lose money - my total outgoings would exceed my total wage by a lot. I suggested if she wanted someone flexible she should hire someone else. She said they wanted me hence how we agreed current working hours.

A week or so into new job new manager tells me I will have to start working to a new 'timetable'. I explain again that I can't. I have all my childcare in place to work three full days. School and nursery will not let me change the days I need them on an adhoc basis. The next day she sends me an email to my home address asking how much notice so I need to work to a 'new timetable'. She doesn't even attach the 'new' timetable she wants me to work to.

I rang Acas today and they said that what my employer has done is perfectly legal. They can change my working days and hours verbally with no notice (although Acas recommend to employers they give notice to their staff which is what my employer has done)

I can't believe employers can legally do this. Agree with an employee one thing and then the next change their mine. All I can do, according to Acas, is go down a grievance route. I have to email employer saying I can't change my hours but the employer is free to disregard this.

AIBU to think employment law in this country is an absolute joke.

I wouldn't voluntarily leave, I would let them terminate my contract. If you cannot find work straight away, you may need to sign on for a short while. If you quit, you wont qualify for any help will you?

I also don't think you should quit, for the reasons mentioned.

Start looking for another job now. Send an email back saying that as discussed at interview and with the old manager, you cannot change your working days. Then if they sack you they sack you, you haven't been there long so it's not like it needs to go on your CV

How frustrating for you.
I would do as others have said, don't resign, let them fire you if they have to.

Send an email back saying that as discussed at interview and with the old manager, you cannot change your working days.

"As discussed and agreed both at interview and with original manager..."

If everything was agreed and you made it clear then they are being very unreasonable. I thought the letter offering you the job would have set this out. But it doesn't sound good for the future if they are going to be like this after you've only been there a few days. I don't think I'd resign. Wait for them to take action. And I agree you don't have to give childcare as a reason. You could have two part time jobs for all they know.

YY what fireandashes said

Never had an official acceptance letter. My current working days were finally agreed after numerous emails back and forth from me and new manager. Feel stupid. Should have got everything officially confirmed. Had some advice in the employment section suggesting I contact HR (it's a very large county council).

AIUI they have asked you when you can start a new rota but haven't said what it is.
There may still be room for compromise.
Reply to say that you can start a new rota in two weeks' time, providing it is still three days as agreed when you started.
That might be all they want, and will give you time to rearrange your childcare.

This is an odd way for a county council to go about things. I've managed a team at a local authority (we provided services directly to the public rather than being in an administrative role) and yet part-timers were always appointed to work an agreed number of days and hours. These were not expected to change precisely because most part time staff have other commitments that they need to work around. That's not to say that some flexibility was necessary when people were on leave but covering their work wouldn't required new rotas, merely a change in lunch breaks or perhaps an earlier start or later finish - but this would be occasional and not fall onto any one person.

So I'm wondering why this sudden need to change your working patterns? Is there an operational reason for this? What justification is your manager providing for it given how clear you were at the outset regarding the need for a fixed pattern of working. Also, have you consulted the Union?

How annoying and upsetting for you. I have no words of advice, luckily my work have been great at accommodating me and my childcare needs.

JosieZ most employers need a reason why you can or cannot do certain hours if there is flexible working. I know mine does, I would not have got the hours I have now had I just said I wanted them and the reasons were my own!

Isn't this indirect discrimination? A woman is more likely to have childcare responsibilities than a male worker so is in effect less able to change their working hours?

Rather like part-time workers indirect indiscrimmination thing because they too are more likley to be women?

Talk to your union rep.... Oh wait, hardly anyone joins unions now, because it 'isn't necessary'.

well I emailed manager and reiterated my reasons as to why I cannot chop and change my working days. I went into great detail (probably far too much) about how my husband has had to persuade his boss to let him work one day from home so he can do drop-offs and how this day isn't negotiable, how my sister has changed her working times so she can pick up the dc one evening a week.

Really just wanted her to see the impact it has not just on me but on others who are helping me with childcare.

pandemoniaa yes it is odd. The county council is one of the biggest in the country and actively promotes flexible working. I had no idea they would think it was acceptable to mess with people's working patterns like this. Ancedotally, other part-timers have left this job as a direct result of having their working days changed. Apparently I replaced a lady with 3 children who could no longer cope with being told her days had changed at short notice and had to re-arrange childcare. Told this by a colleague.

When I said the op can't put in a grievance it was because there was no breach of contract and therefore there was no basis for her grievance. Alternatively, you can put in a grievance but the reality is you're not going to get anywhere.

If the op can wait until her contract of employment comes out then at that stage I would try and negotiate the flexibility clause with either her manager, manager's boss or HR. Negotiating this before signing it might give you what you want. The law isn't going to help you unfortunately. I think it is ridiculous that they are mucking you about like this. It is all so unnecessary. I hope common sense saves the day.

This is indirect sex discrimination surely?

Its perfectly legal, I had full scale war with my manager who unilaterally decided to change the working hours of our - flexi working - office, to suit her own childcare arrangements.

Interestingly our HR while agreeing, it wasnt morally fair, took the stance, that as our policies all contain a "at line managers discretion" clause, it didnt breach policy.

If its a council, it will be a standard contract as well wont it, it will only state number of hours if it is anything like ours.

Its not fair or right, I think all OP can do is say no and wait for them to end her contract at the end of her probation period.

Id also OP speak to job centre, explain what has happened and ask what would happen re JSA if you walk.

This is a really weird way for a Council to behave, especially in an office setting. I am a manager in a Council and can't imagine ever doing this.

Could it just be this manager that is on a bit of a power trip?

Tell her that unless you can come to an arrangement, you will be emailing HR for clarification. Make it a last chance. If she insists on the flexibility email HR about the issue rather than going backwards and forwards with her. Keep it simple, don't include all of the details about your childcare arrangements.

Just state that you took the job on the agreement that you would be able to work three set days, that you explained if this was not possible you would need to turn down the job offer but was assured that it would be fine. Ask them what Council policy is on this and say that if a suitable agreement cannot be reached, you will need to hand in your notice. Attach the original email agreement from your manager.

If you can say that it needs to be 3 days, but it can be any 3 days as long as when it is agreed, it is stuck to it may be helpful in coming to a resolution (e.g. if you have currently agreed Mon, Tues Wed, but would be able to change on a permanent basis to Tues, Wed, Thurs).

Email it to HR, copy in your manager and her line manager - so if she is a level 1 manager, copy it to the Head of Service - if she is the HOS then copy it to the Assistant Director or equivalent.

It is very odd behaviour for a council.

If you accepted the job on the basis of working the hours over three days and confirmed that in writing you have agreed a variation to the standard contract. They were aware of your situation before the offer was made and should comply with the agreed variation in the spirit of a flexibile working request. IMO they have breached the agreement they had with you and if you therefore incur losses or childcare costs because of the breach, I think you probably do have some grounds for a sex discrimination claim.

Make yourself available for the three days that were agreed and put this in writing to the HR manager, copying the line manager's manager. If they want to dismiss on the basis of this I think you will have a fairly strong case and I would let them dismiss so that you are able to claim benefits.

I am quite surprised about the advice you have received from Acas.

married I was surprised by the advice from Acas too. They seemed to think the only thing I could do was to go down the grievance procedure route despite me telling them I've been in the job only a matter of weeks. After the advice on here I asked Acas if it was worth contacting HR first and my manager's line manager. They seemed to think the grievance email was the best route and talked about what would happen if it went to tribunal. I really wanted to know my legal position ie if its legal for employers to change working hours and days and the woman on the phone told me she couldn't get involved as Acas are neutral . I said I just wanted ammunition when I met with my manager and Acas said 'ammunition' was the wrong word and they didn't give out ammuntion.

Thanks for all the advice it's making me feel so much better about how I handle things on Monday Glad that most people dont think I'm being unreasonable.

Try and find out what the business reason is for the flexible hours. Is it justifiable? This would help to give you 'ammunition' of why the job could be done over three days. As somebody has already said don't go into details about your childcare issues. They can be summed up in no more than two sentences. The more you know about the job the more you can justify why it can be done in three consistent days. Your case then becomes more business focused. Also try and find out if it was hard to fill this vacancy. If they lose you then it might cost them a lot to recruit someone else which HR may not like. Good luck.

For a grievance to be dealt with seriously and in order to take the appropriate external steps you should be able to evidence that you have tried your best to resolve the matter informally.

step 1: conversation with line manager
step 2: conversation with line manager's manager
step 3: conversation with HR
step 4: formal grievance submitted
step 5: investigation, possibly with hearing and written outcome
step 6: right of appeal
step 7: appeal hearing and written outcome
step 8: potential sex discrimination claim to ET

If you deal with this tactfully and if you can evidence that you agreed the substantive contract would be varied then I imagine this will be resolved at the HR stage.

ACAS were right to point out that they were neutral and not in a position to give you ammunition. However, I think they have overlooked the agreement at interview in relation to your hours and I hope you put this in writing when you accepted the position. Was there a panel and were notes taken at the interview that you could ask to see?

If there is an audit trail about the hours they should accede to your request; if there is not, I think you need to show them you have lost benefits as a result of accepting the position under false pretences and come to an arrangement whereby neither party loses out in the longer term. If you weren't on benefits beforehand then I think you need to put this down to experience and an unfortunate episode from which you have learned.

And make sure every conversation is followed up with an e-mail noting the key points from the conversation and anything that was agreed or not as the case may be.

Marriedwhite - the trouble is there is no grounds for a grievance in that the company has a flexibility clause in their contract of employment! What would the basis of the grievance be about? Half the company could probably put in a grievance if there was a rationale for it. What the op needs to do is talk to someone in a senior position in the company, who has a bit of common sense, and negotiate a change to her contract (which hasn't yet been signed). The more business focused her negotiation is the better.