To correct NCT teacher

[Skeetle]

Lurking through pregnancy but thought I'd try my first AIBU

I recently went to an NCT class and spent quite a bit of the evening sitting on my hands due to the dubious nature of some of the information on pain relief. Having researched myself quite a bit, including a detailed conversation with obstetric anaesthetists and reading up on NICE guidelines I was surprised to hear the following:

They won't let you have an epidural past 8th dilated.

Epidurals are now allowed to wear off for the second stage as this reduces birth trauma.

And most strange of all, she managed in a roundabout way to link entonox with postnatal depression

There were some other inaccuracies too. As I say, I sat on my hands and didn't say much apart from a quiet comment to her when no one else appeared to be listening that I'd been told I could have an epidural past 8cm dilated.

Without wishing to start a fight on pros and cons of pain relief in labour, I do think accurate information should be given so a woman can choose accurately. I don't like to think of my fellow NCT classmates making decisions based on this but equally don't want to undermine the teacher.
So WIBU to send her an email pointing some of this out or have I missed the chance to say something without making a big issue of it. Should I have simply made a comment there and then?

is a CLINICALLY PROVEN fact that babies who are breast fed are more loved by their mothers' I gave the hmm face.

Oh my fucking god!

these threads always go all 'quotey'

They were denied pain relief 'because she's fine really, I'll give her a bit longer'. Didn't look fine to me and the anaesthetist was never called.

If she REALLY told you to say 'no' to all interventions then you need to contact NCT and complain ASAP. Teacher would be disciplined sacked if it could be verified that you are telling the truth. Should be easy to verify it as other people in class would have heard it too.

Really that is very very poor.

Skeetle - that's awful. Do they do the same with people with kidney stones, I wonder? "Oh, he's fine, really, I'll just give him a bit longer..."

The sweetest and most surreal bit of my NCT course involved the teacher showing the theatre setup for a c-section with Lego hospital stuff and random figures playing the surgeon, anaesthetist etc. I remember the Red Indian, complete with feather headdress was the expectant father. As I ended up with a c-section, quite useful too, even if I kept wondering why the theatre nurse wasn't dressed like a fireman.

Seriously, OP, I would correct any misinformation the NCT teacher is giving out. I'm not a medical professional, but I had done a lot of reading during my pregnancy, and I asked a few pointed questions (but quite pleasantly) during m course. In fact, so many of our NCT group ended up having highly interventionist births - including one who almost died from an undiagnosed condition - that there is a lot of general anger towards some of the NCT anti-medical prejudice.

shagmund I hadn't thought of that. I feel a bit bad as she was friendly but it's awful advice isn't it? I guess I just dismissed it as I took it with a pinch of salt, and forgot others may actually do as she says :(

Shall get onto that ASAP

Skeetle - women in full throttle in labour may not be coping. They may be crying and begging for help. I was like this. Didn't mean I wanted or needed drugs. I agree that if a clear request is made for pain relief then the midwife must try to act on this. However it is difficult because lots of women who feel very strongly that they want to avoid an epidural before labour start to ask for one as they enter transition or when they look like they're in transition. Midwives see this all the time. The majority of these women will manage without and afterwards be glad they didn't have one. But sometimes it happens that labour takes one of its unpredictable turns and the poor mum ends up continuing for hours in a state of severe distress and in need of an epidural. I don't know what the answer is to this problem.

Adele - I think you'll find that the NCT aren't alone in flagging up the astonishingly high levels of interventions in birth in the UK. This concern is shared by midwives.

I think the irony is that people go along to NCT classes with a belief (usually) that they want a straightforward birth. Then the vast majority flock off to the labour ward where their chances of having one are often very low - particularly if they opt for an induction and/or an epidural.

It's like going to weight watchers then going for a meal in an 'all you can eat' buffet - after you've forgotten to eat breakfast. And then blaming weight watchers for making you feel guilty and giving you unrealistic expectations.

My problem with NCT (from an information point of view- loved it from a meeting people point of view) was that it was difficult to see through the bias to the real concerns. I would speak up- ask questions rather than just say "you're wrong" - I thought I was going to be expelled when I said that homeopathy was a load of crap.

OP I think you are right to try and get all the facts and to plan to make informed decisions during labour. I think you should, however, prepare yourself for the fact that you may not be able to articutely demand what you want and quote guidelines etc when you are in labour, medical professional or not. Otherwise you may end up feeling very disappointed. Did you see One Born Every Minute featuring the mdwife who was in labour. A brilliant illustration of how things do not always go to plan...

My NCT classes were great, and certainly not some sort of anti-drugs propaganda. One of us is a nurse who went along very concerned at the anti-medical stuff she'd heard about them but wanting to make friends, and in the eight classes we had, she only disagreed with one thing, which was the teacher's failure to explain that you can have a half dose of pethidine.

We spent as much time acting out a C-section as we did practising active birth positions.

I went in as a full on lentil weaver and found it useful to hear more about the possible medical side of things at our local hospital. I had done a vast amount of reading for years before and during pregnancy (frustrated aspiring midwife) and while the teacher didn't tell me much I didn't know, it was good to hear about it in local context and also to really make me think about how I was going to deal with interventions if they occurred.

Thelobsterswife is very wise I think. How much you know in advance may help you cope with anxiety which is very important. And it may make a difference to the birth too. But it may not.

If being calm matters to you, hypno-birthing or variants of it are quite good. I think it helped me stay very mellow during DD's birth even during an eleventh hour hospital transfer without my notes (so the MW kept calling me the wrong name because she didn't know who I was).

I had an epidural at 8cm. Simple!

The NCT is pro-normal, straightforward birth. Aren't we all?

That does not mean it is anti-intervention when intervention is necessary.

Individual teachers may have there own bias but each teacher is different. The training for teacher does not tell us there is only one way to teach thankfully. However, if teacher spout crap and do not meet the needs of the clients then the only way to deal with that is to complain...not on here....to the NCT. I have heard so many tales on here of out of order things NCT teachers are supposed to have said but no one ever seems to have complained. Oddly I have never personally come across a qualified teacher who appears likely to have said any of these outrageous things - maybe these ones hide away.

Also the NCT does not promote the use of homeopathy. The individual teacher might be a fan but don't blame a whole organisation for that.

Bignutbrownhair:
"doctors (who obviously sit in the hospital wielding their knives, just chomping at the bit to cut women open left, right and centre!)"

I know you're being sarcastic, but I'm afraid that there is a bit of that. My dad, who is a total white-coat, the most conservative, pro-conventional-everything medic type you can imagine, with a lot of experience of hospitals, said when I said I was probably having a baby in the MLU next to the hospital: "Good. You don't want those registrars cutting you up for practice."

Yes lobster I have planned for even that DP is primed to do his part and if I get to the stage where I can't articulate anything that will be a clear sign I want an epidural!

Shagmund - that's a difficult one isn't it and also something ive thought about. For some women, they will be glad they did not have pain relief and for others it will be a source of trauma that they did not. Who has the greater capacity to consent? The woman calmly planning prior to birth but without actual knowiledge of what birth will be like or the woman who knows exactly what the pain is like and therefore is unable to think clearly at the time? It's hard to know for sure which I'll be if I end up in that situation and I find it hard to trust others judgments on that if I'm not clear myself. For me, I'm going to take the bet (and all the associated risks) that I'd rather have pain relief unnecessarily rather than fail to get necessary pain relief. Others may clearly feel differently and that is their choice.

I said, "I WANT SOMEONE ELSE TO DO THIS" (hard stare at DP)

My problem with NCT (from an information point of view- loved it from a meeting people point of view) was that it was difficult to see through the bias to the real concerns. I would speak up- ask questions rather than just say "you're wrong" - I thought I was going to be expelled when I said that homeopathy was a load of crap.

Similar experiences here, and that was in 1990's. Recent announcements by NCT implies they are trying to clean up their act, not before time IMO - so I think aska all the hard questiosn you can.

The other thought I had re 8cm epidurals etc was that if there are other emergencies on the wards at the time it may be quite hard to get the anaes. at the right time, so a Plan B is probably a very good idea.

"implies they are trying to clean up their act"

I think you'll find that like in any profession, antenatal teaching is not immune to having poor practitioners. Complaints about midwives, teachers and doctors on these boards are legion too. And the poor NCT does get scape goated for promoting a normal birth agenda within a birth culture in which intervention rates are out of control.

Just like midwives sometimes get scape goated for promoting breastfeeding within a culture which doesn't support mothers properly, and where bottlefeeding is the social norm.

I think the point about transition is well made - for me it is was the hardest stage mentally and physically, but also the stage when an epidural would be most ill advised.

Midwives see lots of births and will exercise judgement based on this. My midwives were all spot on and supported me through transition without an epidural. It is often quite a brief, if intense and disorientating, phase of labour.

I also heartily agree that fear increases pain and good birth partners that stick with you can help a lot, if you are fortunate enough to have a straightforward birth.

"I also heartily agree that fear increases pain and good birth partners that stick with you can help a lot, if you are fortunate enough to have a straightforward birth"

Actually these things apply in all births, not just the straight forward ones!

Thanks Shagmundfreud! I did not want to presume, as I know I was lucky to have straightforward births. However, I was amazed how effective the breathing and the support were in keeping on top of the pain (apart from transiton, when all bets are off). I thought it was a bit 'woo' prior to labour but it helped more than anything else.

I have used the breathing techniques to manage pain since, with great success (when I broke my leg, root canal treatment etc).

"Skeetle - that's awful. Do they do the same with people with kidney stones, I wonder? "Oh, he's fine, really, I'll just give him a bit longer..."

actually that happened to my neighbours DH...

the consultant wanted him to be able to locate the pain reliably, so refused pain relief.