To think our neighbours should have spoken to us before deciding to keep a bee hive?

[slatternlymother]

Our neighbours 2 doors down have recently decided to take up beekeeping. The first we knew of it was when the bees were disturbed, creating a large angry swarm.

My DH is allergic to bee stings (and so naturally has quite a debilitating fear) and DS is only 18mo; I just would have thought they would have at least knocked on our door and said 'by the way, we're starting a hive and the bees will be disturbed by us at X time so you might want to shut your doors and windows'. They seem like nice people, but there seems to be a lack of consideration for others.

The bees are swarming right now, so even though the sun is shining, we can't get outside in the garden to play with DS like we wanted to

AIBU to think they have been a bit unfair on the rest of the neighbourhood? It's quite a populated area.

Actually, we actively shouldn't have cats. Note the songbird decline in recent times. If cats pollinated 30% of the crops in the world, they could shit all over my garden and I wouldn't complain.

There will be worldwide famine if bees keep declining. This is not directed at the OP BTW, who is being pretty reasonable, but all the NIMBEES

Sorry OP YABU - I don't see why they should have to talk to you about it. A bee hive 2 gardens away doesn't pose any additional risk to you and bees are so important.

Bees are incredibly important (would love to keep them myself but....) and no one is disputing that. But if you or your partner were badly allergic to bees you would at least want to know when the honey's being harvested.

YANBU, op. I do think you should talk to your neighbour. They almost certainly don't know that your dh is allergic. If you can go and talk to them in the manner of solving a problem and not confrontationally or angrily, you may find there's an acceptable solution.

Have they got a massive garden?

Ok...having thought about it a bit more I do think you could go and talk to them. Not from the point of view of getting them removed or anything but just to ask them if they could keep you informed of when they are doing something that might cause more activity.

The other thing, of course, is that unlike sheep bees are not generally painted on the side with their owner's ID - just because someone gets stung doesn't mean it's the neighbour's bees anyway.. Not that anyone appears to have been stung yet. Your DH has to have an epi-pen whether this hive is there or not, and I assume he knows how to use it.

Bees are not programmed to sting unless the hive is threatened. A bee dies when it stings someone, it literally gives its life to save the colony - there is no evolutionary benefit in being aggressive unless you are a threat to it. You are too far away to be on the flight path (which is why they don't advise bees on allotments). I have never been stung by a bee (wasps are another issue - I might be allergic to bees for all I know - but as I've never been stung I haven't found out!), nor have any of my children and I have been around swarms and open hives (without protective gear) and have a garden full of them (sadly not in my empty hive ).

I've also never once been stung by one despite growing up with a garden with bee-friendly plants that always had loads of them buzzing around. Been stung by wasps.

Thanks for all the advice

The reason I thought they might say something, is that we live in a row of eight houses which are gated off so it wouldn't be as if they had to speak to 30-odd homeowners.

I will pop over and have a chat; if they have a routine then I'd like to know beside then I can take my own precautions to minimise the risk.

I am surprised people keep them in suburban areas though; surely they're more of a pastime for people with a bit more land?

Nope urban bees are increasing,mi was reading something only yesterday about how rural bees are dying off but more and more people are keeping them in towns and cities.

It wouldn't have occurred to me to say to my neighbours - I'm obviously a tit! I'm allergic to wasp stings - far more scary, bees are quite placid and mind their own business, wasps are aggressive little fuckers.

Good luck with it - be nice and they may share the lovely honey!

Urban honey is reputed to taste better because the bees have access to a wide variety of flowers.

I really want to keep bees and if we have a big enough garden at some point I probably will. I would look to get a calm strain of bees.

I think having a chat with them is a good idea.

It sounds like the bees are being disturbed during a weekly inspection and not actually swarming. An inspection shouldn't disturb the bees that much unless it's a full inspection and you don't need to do one of those each week. I might ask if they need to do an inspection every week - it's not really necessary.

I keep bees (and have two young DS's). The hives are about 10m from the house and we don't have problems even when I inspect, the bees swirl up directly above the hive.

rhonda yes, I'm not going to get rude or anything. I was annoyed earlier but I've calmed down now. I don't think my request for further information about their inspections etc would be an unreasonable one. And I'll certainly be asking about honey! It's supposed to be good for allergies, no?

It's their house and garden, bee keeping is not against the law and nor do bees make a habit of stinging people.

OP, just to add to this, if you're having trouble with the bees coming into your garden the owners may be able to turn the hive to face a different way/put a fence round it so the bees fly up before spreading out or something like that. When I started to keep bees I got advice from my beekeeping mentor about how to site the hive so it didn't cause problems for neighbours.

That being said, I didn't notify them all (live in a fairly rural area so neighbours aren't very close): this thread has made me think I ought to pop round and check no-one's been having any problems.

One of my long term life goals is to keep bees, BUT I know how scary anaphylatic shock is. This is one of those times where you all need to have a non-judgemental conversation. They need to take the allergy concern seriously and you need to recognise their right to keep bees on their property.

Let the neighbours know about the allergy - they aren't intending your hubby to have to dice with death for the sake of their hobby on purpose!!!!! It's highly likely they can

1/ Turn the hive round so your garden isn't in the direct hive flight path
2/ Agree a set time of day for tending the hive (if they have to do it at 6 am - well that's just how it is iyswim)
3/ Be uber vigilant about swarming
4/Get some qualified advice on sting avoidance techniques from the local bee keeping association to reduce your hubbies risk to a minimum.

Checking your hubby has an up to date epi-pen also seems a sensible thing to do.

I do know they tend to roam 10 miles from the hive in the hunt for food, that in the UK you are a total muppet if you don't take advantage of your local bee keeper association's 3rd party insurance & that local associations DO advise on sensible locations (& even not to keep the darn things at all sometimes!!!!!).

In London lots of hives are kept on flat roof tops to avoid people being in the hive flight path - is this a possibility?

It's easy for those who don't understand or suffer from anaphylatic shock to make light of allergies, for those who have witnessed or who have a loved one who is at risk - it's a totally different story. It's not standard Nimbyism to fear summat that could kill you, in the OP's defence.

A local set up a bee hive last year in his small garden and the whole community have had no end of problem. The owner has failed to put signs out to warn the public when disturbing the nest and on three occasions a swarm has chased various friends. Many have been stung several times and they all knocked on the mans door to tell him.

Forgot to mention that the man got rid of his dangerous bees in the end.

Heres some info from the sussex county council website.

Bees and Neighbours

Beekeeping is a wonderful hobby. Bees are interesting creatures, with a fascinating life. Unfortunately not everyone appreciates this and unless care is taken in keeping and siting colonies, trouble can result.
Stings

The only fact about bees that most people seem to know is that they sting. The closer a person is to an active colony, the more likely they are to be stung.

The possibility of non-beekeepers being stung is reduced if:

Bees are NOT kept in small gardens or close to houses
The bees kept are known to be docile
Manipulation of colonies is performed whilst neighbours are at work
Colonies are kept in sheltered apiaries behind naturally high barriers
Drinking Bees

Bees need to drink like any other creature. Non-beekeepers can view this harmless activity with alarm since bees often choose to drink from places like the edges of ornamental ponds. The beekeeper can help by providing water for his bees. The simplest way to do this is by standing a large plant pot full of peat in a reservoir of water. Do not let it dry up. It cannot be emphasised too strongly that drinking bees are harmless.

Overflying

Bees normally fly about 5m above the ground but problems can occur from bees flying out from their hives and returning to them. In windy weather over open ground, bees fly very low because it is less effort. They only rise to fly over obstacles in their path.
The beekeeper can help by sheltering the apiary site with hedges or shrubs. It also helps if hives can be faced away from neighbouring properties. In addition, the height of the boundary fence can be raised by allowing hedges to grow to about two metres in height. A temporary barrier can be formed from sparrow-proof netting which bees will not readily fly through.

Cleansing Flights

After winter confinement in the cluster, bees' early flights on sunny, spring days can result in anything in the vicinity of the hives being spotted with faeces. If this includes neighbours' laundry or cars, then their resentment is understandable.
This nuisance can be reduced by making sure that the bulk of the winter stores is well-ripened sugar syrup. Feeding should be finished by mid September. High barriers round the garden will also help to keep the bees on cleansing flights circling near their hives.

Swarms

Neighbours will not necessarily welcome swarms into their property. No beekeeper can guarantee preventing all swarms. However, the chance of swarms can be reduced to a very small percentage indeed.

You need:

To keep all queens clipped
To have adequate spare equipment
To use a simple, effective method of swarm control
To make sure hives are not over-heated by the summer sun
To seek help from a really experienced beekeeper if required
Number of Hives or Colonies

There have been cases brought to court where the beekeeper kept an enormous number of colonies in their garden.
Sheer number of colonies can worsen all the problems touched on so far. It is impossible to give any definite figure. Modern suburban gardens are not suitable at all. Larger gardens, depending on their size, could safely house a number of colonies.

Rights

Beekeepers have the right to keep bees. Their neighbours have the right to enjoy their property in peace.
Badly kept and positioned colonies can be a nuisance.
Unfortunately, what the neighbour might see as a nuisance is likely to be given more consideration in a court than that which the beekeeper sees as an interesting characteristic in his bees. Bees harmlessly drinking water from a pond may well, therefore, be deemed a real nuisance, even if all the beekeepers called to give evidence state the opposite.

Avoiding Confrontation

Any beekeepers confronted with an angry neighbour should not be aggressive.
Try to talk the problem through and take some positive action to attempt to allay the problem. It could well help to talk through with your neighbours the intention to keep bees. Share some of your honey with them and always emphasis the pollinating value of bees to the environment.
If the neighbour is the sort of person who is constantly worried about the bees, then it is likely that beekeeping next door will never be a pleasant experience. It would be simpler to keep your bees in out-apiaries and avoid any problems.

I understand the fear bochead I have family with other severe allergic reactions, it's scary - but it's the responsibility of the person with the allergy, and their family, to learn how to manage it, confidence in managing it actually makes the world a less scary place.

It is simply not possible to be in a bee-free environment if you go outdoors in summer. The fact is that bees are not generally aggressive and a hive 2 gardens away does not add significant risk.

I used the word NIMBEE only because I thought I was being hilarious, NIM BEE, geddit?

Sorry I've only read the first few posts so maybe I'm repeating, but what the OP says the bees are swarming is wrong - they're not actually.
Honeybees swarm when they get a new queen, and need a new hive, and part of bee-keeping is to check on the egg laying queen every day to ensure that the bees do not indeed swarm.

We kept bees when I was a child and I was only ever stung once in the garden NOT by a honeybee by the way, but by a wasp.

Bees are not aggressive. Wasps are, and you don't keep wasps. So OP make sure what you're talking about.

Sorry about your allergy, but what you do about it is up to you.
Have an epi-pen handy, and maybe get to know a bit more about bees!
BTW Honey might be very good for your allergic DH.

MrsTP

I've read this thread with great interest as our next-door-but-one-neighbour is planning to keep bees. I'm not thrilled by the idea, to be honest, but knowing about the need to support bees has kept my mouth shut.

Not sure there's enough consensus here to fully put my mind at rest, but I'm sure this issue will continue to grow and this will be the first of many MN debates on it

How would someone's bees causing injury to allergic people be any different in concept to someone's dog injuring someone?

What a load of uninformed nonsense on this thread. A bee hive is not a threat if kept properly and as others have said, a swarm is natural occurrence to split the colony, and never aggressive.
Please read the appropriate information about bees and do not be so bloody urban.
If we did not have them then you city types we would have no food.

Whatme, well you wouldn't know whose bee stung you, for a start, and afaik there are no laws about muzzling dangerous bees, or keeping them on a lead in a public place, or classes advertised where one can train them.

But y 'know, other than that, no difference at all.