to think I am utterly stuck in this utterly shit marriage?

[lecce]

I am so tired and about to leave for work but our marriage seems to be bringing neither of us any joy whatsoever and we just seem so angry with each other all the time. DS2 (2.10) has slept throug about 5 times in his whole life and there are other pressures as well and we don't seem to be coping. I know you have to work at relationships but how?

Anyway, I work f/t and dh is sahd - a 'proper' one, not like some I've read about on here who are just not working but don't do a lot with the dc/house. We are ok financially but no way could I afford to fund two households.

Is it correct that if we did split, I would have to leave the family home and dh would stay with the dc? Is it correct that I would be likely to end up seeing them alternate weekends?

It's making me cry just typing that. Just feel so miserable and, most of all, trapped.

I think you're going to have to get over your reluctance to let him cry, because atm everyone in your house is suffering for the sake of having him get his own way....including your other dc. It's not on, and it needs to stop. Be firm.

if you don't think it's ok for your DP to speak firmly to your "roaring" DS at 5.30am then you are not going to get the sleep issues sorted. I had a toddler with sleep issues (medically related) and even those you just have to tackle eventually. He will wake up the whole street for a while - it's just what you have to do to get through this incredibly destructive habit.

I also agree that you need counselling for yourself on the WOH issue. You cannot be all things to all people. If you are working full time, your husband is the main parent during the day and if you don't respect him for that and allow him to set the terms some times then you are doomed. This is what a partnership is. I think you are really struggling with your own identity here - how to be a mother when you are not at home all day. That's an understandable struggle but don't act out your issues on your family.

FWIW I am a single parent so I don't have the "main parent" dilemma. It is just me. I work full time and I am also the sole parent. So I get total control over how things should be done - and I do value that I admit so I think I know where you are coming from. But I also see that in a relationship, you must work in partnership and to share at times, step forward at times, step back at times. God knows that's hard. But I think you need to see that some of these issues in your family are yours - at least that's how it seems to me, reading between the lines.

There is a middle ground with the whole crying it out thing, where you keep going into him every couple of minutes to reassure him and say "it is night time. You need to go to sleep. I'll be back to check on you in 2 minutes". So he doesn't feel abandoned, but it is still up to him to find a way to calm down on his own.

I agree Sarky although I never e=went in every couple of minutes, but about every 20 mins to half an hour.

We used to have night waking probs too, until we decided enough was enough and stopped caving. After that....the bliss of a peaceful night's sleep for EVERYONE!

ok. It was probably more like 5. Or maybe a teeny bit longer

I'm another WOH mother and DH was SAHD for many years. I do understand the feeling of being trapped sometimes. I'm sure most sole or main breadwinners feel that from time to time. The feel that everyone's wellbeing is on your shoulders. Undoubtedly I snapped at DH sometimes especially when I felt excluded from family life.

One of the things which helped me was as DCs got older agreeing with DH which bits I was excluded from. For me that meant that I was excluded from going to the zoo (hurrah! I hate going to the zoo! I wonder round glaring at the animals and demaning to go home!).

On the other hand as DCs got older and went to school I was never excluded from parents evening. We always made sure that it was at a time we could both go.

As DCs get older it does get easier. The type of attention they want and need changes. They will get excited about telling you things.

I second the toddler taming book. It's my bible atm, and dd1 is 2y8mo, and a screamer, tantrumer, strong willed child. Ever since I read that book, she has calmed down immensely :)
It will probably be the tiredness with the both of you. My dd still wakes in the nite, and for the life of us we can't stop it. She has been a nightmare since birth, and is very hard work. But, since having that book, she has calmed so much more.
You're lucky that both of you wake to settle ur lo, as my dh has only just started to wake and help, and when he does, he realises how hard my day is when I walk around like a zombie. So know's why I'm a grumpy cow now.

Toddler Taming and 123 Magic are the books I'd recommend.

What would be the response - from both you and your DH - to the suggestion that you both work part-time?

Does his MS allow him to work at all?

Would you feel in a better position were you, say, doing a 3-day week?

Would it be financially possible?

I have to say, that while I broadly agree with the idea that as SAHP he has to take the lead and should expect to have the primacy of his role here acknowledged:

a. that doesn't mean that he gets to DECIDE parenting techniques. If you disagree, you discuss and come to a compromise - which BOTH parents then sign up to follow.

b. You're getting quite a shitty deal in one very major sense - although you're the one working out of the home full-time, YOU are doing the night wakings. So you are more sleep deprived that the average WOHM which is going to be part of the reason why you feel the way you do, and secondly, I have to say that if it were me, there'd also be an element of - you may be the parent at home, but I'm the parent getting broken sleep, so no, you DON'T get to override any and all opinions of mine on parenting decisions.

So I need to take a look at this Toddler Taming book - I've always been put off by the name as it sounds a bit controlling and seems to be refering to children as if they are animals - though I suppose it is supposed to be light-hearted. I do think it's hard to follow through and stick to regimes that are out of synch with your take on life. I do see that our current approach isn't working.

I do think there are other issues - the MS (though it hasn't had a major impact yet) is a constant threat hanging over our heads and I do worry about the future.

Dh also has different views on money too, though not in a major way - he hasn't got us into debt or anything (the debts we have are from my mat leave and are under control) but he is, imo, less responsible than me. for example, we have a very expensive (£500ish) coffee machine that was a wedding present. We use it loads and it has broken. I feel we should make do with a stove-top espresso-maker but dh is always looking on ebay at replacements that cost £150ish. We clash over this - I think he's being ridiculous, he thinks I am a kill-joy. There are many, many similar, fairly minor examples I could give.

Don't know - which ever way I look, there are issues .

I think the point is that you can't know how important (or not) these other issues are until you are not sleep deprived.

Deal with the sleep first and hopefully the rest will not seem quite so insurmountable.

"It's not our approach"

I hope you don't take this rudely, but it does seem like "your approach" is not even anywhere near to being even anywhere in the remotest region of being close to effective. Perhaps it's time to let your DH (who has to deal with the child all day) try something else.

If my DP (I am a SAHM) tried to railroad me into doing something that wasn't working - when I am the one who has to ooh after the child all day long whilst he is out the house - I would be very, very cross.

Are your feelings about not being the one at home during the day affecting how you are parenting during the night? Is there a bit of you that feels that you need to be there for your son at night as you are not during the day? I am not suggesting that you should feel like that at all just wondered if it could be a factor. I struggle a bit with a similarly aged night waking dc and I know my feelings about being there for him at night can be quite conflicted, though I agree they should be sleeping through most nights by this age.

Can your DH go and visit family for a weekend with DS so that you can get a couple of unbroken nights sleep?

Can you then do the same a week later?

A few nights each may help you a little bit? Then ask someone to have DS for a night so you and H can spend the night together to chat or anything?

Lecce, I'm sure this is grinding you down relentlessly but the examples you give sound very normal and standard. The argument about the coffee machine sounds very normal in a relationship and not extravagent on his part or penny pinching on yours - it's just different people prioritising things differently. Your DH wanting to buy a replacement coffee machine is not "ridiculous" (especially not since he's at home and you are both sleep deprived!) - nor is it by itself evidence that things have irretrievably broken down. Couples do have these issues every day and get through them.

What is it about your situation that makes this minor spat and all the other minor spats into something symptomatic of a terrible marriage?

Lack of underlying respect for each other? Forgotten why you ever liked each other? It really sounds like you can't see the wood for the trees. Is the MS scaring you so much that nothing seems secure?

I don't think you should decide anything till you are getting enough sleep. Everything seems bleak without sleep. You need to get a gro-clock off amazon to help with sleeping through. It will tell your son when he can get up. I think you should also tough it out and not pander to the night feeds. He will be very noisy but will get over it quickly. In the long run it will benefit your whole family hugely. It sounds like you are all worn out.

To be honest I think you're being quite hard on your DH about a lot of things because you're not happy with the choice you've made as a family for him to be at home and you to work.

I can't help thinking that if your DH was a SAHM posting about her husband's expectations of her, they'd be lots of posts about them being controlling and advice of leave the bastard (I'm only being a little bit tongue in cheek here).

Agree with others that you need to sort the sleep and then spend some time talking to each other and working out how you can both be happy in your roles within the family, but if you are going to get anywhere with that you really need to give up on the idea that you are in charge and get to control all of the decisions in the family regarding how you raise your children and deal with your finances. Marriage should be a partnership, sometimes you're right, sometimes he's right but most of the time you need to work out what is the right way together.

Toddler taming book is helpful by the way and no, i don't feel my child is treated like an animal. Problems are worked through fairly and routinely. I actually prefer The Complete Secrets To Raising Happy Children by Steve Biddulph as it is more about reflection and thinking things through. This is a skill we really want our kids to develop as it means they will work out whats right and make considerate choices rather then be punished into doing the right thing.

The title of "Toddler Taming" is definitely meant light heartedly; the author has a very humourous style.