to think I am utterly stuck in this utterly shit marriage?

[lecce]

I am so tired and about to leave for work but our marriage seems to be bringing neither of us any joy whatsoever and we just seem so angry with each other all the time. DS2 (2.10) has slept throug about 5 times in his whole life and there are other pressures as well and we don't seem to be coping. I know you have to work at relationships but how?

Anyway, I work f/t and dh is sahd - a 'proper' one, not like some I've read about on here who are just not working but don't do a lot with the dc/house. We are ok financially but no way could I afford to fund two households.

Is it correct that if we did split, I would have to leave the family home and dh would stay with the dc? Is it correct that I would be likely to end up seeing them alternate weekends?

It's making me cry just typing that. Just feel so miserable and, most of all, trapped.

Is your DS actually crying though? Or is he scrunchy his face and making a noise to try and get his own way? I think you could try toddler taming, there's also one called something 1, 2, 3 something... I'll try and and find it for you.

I think you're both just tired and need to get your toddler sleeping issues sorted.

Huge sympathies. And if it's any consolation it looks like there are a few of us around here. My dd who is 20 months doesn't sleep through at all and still bf. my DS is currently quite ill and doesn't sleep through because he's in pain.

I work ft and am the main breadwinner. Dh is setting up on his own. We have arguments about money, about who does more, about the tidiness of the house, about how he doesn't cook and relies on me to dream up meals even though he is at home and can look in the fridge.

I think it's due to lack of sleep. V understated thing but most useful when we have had some.

No solutions except get some sleep first. And maybe even get some me time. Can you get a babysitter??

as children get older, things change. Usually, but not always, for the better. for example once your child is in school, you wont have to fork out for expensive childcare in quite the same way.
8 years ago i used to come on here and cry because of the awfulness of my marriage. In some ways its even worse now, but i am much stronger now, and working towards something amazing. And its ok not being the resident parent. Dont let anyone guilt you into believing that only the mother can or should be the one.

Lecce, there's a sleep problem, obviously. But it seems like there's also a respect problem - you describe your DH as having no respect for you but it sounds in the incident you describe that you were not very respectful to his way either. In fact it sounds like you were undermining him.

To be very honest, I think you need to adjust your views. Something is not right with your style of discipline if your son is still waking up mutliple times in the night at nearly three unless there are other health issues. Don't be so sure you are right on this - it's not working is it?

Sorry if that sounds harsh - you sound really desperate so Im sure you don't need grief. But if you want to improve things you are going to have to change. He is too, but you might want to take ownership of your own decision to do things differently first.

Sleep training (referral from GP)?

You say "I like to think I'm the main parent". But you are also the main earner, so what role does that leave your DH with?

I really am not trying to be harsh, it sounds like you are very unhappy, but if my DH criticized my attempts to deal with bad behaviour then left for the day leaving me to deal with a petulant toddler knowing that not only did I not have his support, but he actually thought he could do better, I would be beyond pissed off.

Someone mentioned relationship counselling, I think having someone who could perhaps facilitate a discussion and bring some new perspectives to the situation could really help.

Is there anyone who could take your son overnight on the odd occasion? Don't underestimate the effect sleep deprivation will be having on you both - it really does drive people crazy.

I think niceguy is right - once the sleep and discipline are sorted - things may well be a lot better. Your dh is the one who deals with your ds day in day out surely he has a right to deal with ds as he thinks is best.

It does sound hard, and I feel for you.

I really think you can't underestimate the havoc sleep deprivation / interrupted sleep can wreak on a relationship. It can totally destroy things.

I do think you need to sit down with your DH and come up with a new approach - one that you are both happy with - with regards to your son's sleep.

We loosely did 'attachment parenting' with our first DS - until he was about this age - but I literally couldnt bear being woken up every hour to snuggle/feed/be mummy anymore, as harsh as that sounds. It was wrecking my life. We did a sort of controlled crying, I suppose - something I would never have considered before - and it worked (took about 3 weeks, getting progressively less hellish). DS is nearly 8 yrs old now and has slept 7-7 ever since.

Sirry to come across all Super Nanny, but f you dont stamp out piss taking things like 'my soft toys have fallen out of bed' at 2am, you will be runnign to him in the night for years to come.

But the important thing is - you and your DH have to have a calm talk about this, maybe in a cafe over a cuppa without your DS - and agree on a tack to take going forward.

Good luck

Yes, I do have issues with being seen as a 'secondary' parent. Intellectually, I can of course accept that as dh is home all the time he is going to take most decision regarding child-rearing matters. However, there is something in me that just gets upset about the fact that I am out of the loop to an extent.

It's not the fact that I wish I was at home all the time, or even part-time, because I don't. I had a year off for ds2 and it was enough to teach me that I am not cut out to be a SAHP. What gets to me is not so much the fact that I have less time with them, but that when I am with them, how I can 'be' with them and discipline them etc should really be determined by the tone that dh has set during the week. That is what I really really struggle with. I want to do things my way when I'm home but, worse than that, I want to feel that that's how they're being done when I'm not home as well. I do know that's unreasonable but I can't deny it's how I feel.

I do think counselling would be a good plan but dh is against the idea, or was when I mentioned it a while ago.

The thought of only seeing the children at weekends makes me weep, really. It would confirm the sense I'm getting that I'm really just here to bring in the money and that my relationship with the children needs to come second to the one they have with dh .

If your husband was the main earner and also considered himself to be the main parent and undermined your parenting, how would you feel? That's pretty disrespectful and unpleasant. I'm sure it stems from your feeling of guilt for working f/t and jealousy of your husband being at home. Understandable but you have to get a handle on it.

You do need to tackle the sleep problem. You need sleep more than your DS needs BF in the night now, by the sound of it. In my experience, biting the bullet and just saying to DS that there were be no more night time BF and stiking with it 100% with no exceptions is the quickest and least confusing way. Yes he will be upset at first, but within 3-4 nights he will be starting to get used to the idea. You also need a consistent approach for dealing with him getting out of bed etc. Be 100% consistent. Discuss it properly with your DH beforehand and make sure you are both reasonably happy with what you are going to do.

When you are getting more sleep, things will seem clearer and you can give some thought to improving your marriage.

I think you have control issues tbh. But I would bet you are totally exhausted and I think rather than counselling the first thing to do would be to get your ds sleeping through the night, but that would mean you and dh have to agree on how to do it.
If I was your dh I would be pretty mad at you.

If your husband was the main earner and also considered himself to be the main parent and undermined your parenting, how would you feel? That's pretty disrespectful and unpleasant. I'm sure it stems from your feeling of guilt for working f/t and jealousy of your husband being at home. Understandable but you have to get a handle on it.

I know, I know but I can't help it. I hate the idea that he would do things that I just wouldn't do and that, in certain cases, I might have to do them at weekends etc in the name of consistency. We're not usually that out of step with each other, tbh, and many's the time he's told me to pick my battles with ds1 and not get into battles with him! However, ds2 seems to be pushing us in ways that ds1 hasn't and dh now wants to take a hard line that I find hard to accept.

I haven't bf ds2 at night for months. Yes, it was hard but it hasn't, contrary to what people promised and what you suggest above, solved the night-time problems and he still wakes up. Usually, he doesn't ask for anything but he is so loud with his crying that he disturbs us - ds1 included as they are in the same room.

It doesn't help that I do nearly all the night-time stuff, partly because of dh's MS but also because, even when he is well and says he is going to help, he doesn't always wake up.

I mean this in the nicest way but I think you are being a typically over anxious, guilty mum {know cos I've been there!)

Let the boys get on with it! And let go a bit. If you argue with your dh over his disciplining ideas (which sound sensible to me btw) then no wonder he won't get up in the night.

Your toddler needs a firm line taking now he is getting older. Do it now before you have a monster on your hands! Controlled crying is the way forward. It will be exhausting and upsetting. But as poster above says it's being cruel to be kind. Your Ds will benefit from a happier more rested family. So will your older DS.

I think the big issue here is sleep deprivation. Dd didn't sleep through until she was 2 so I can really sympathise. I can well imagine your dh this morning was exhausted and at the end of his tether, couldn't stand listening to the screaming any more and so just said the first thing that came into his head to get your ds to be quiet. Then when you confronted him about it he was still exhausted and in a bad mood and had possibly already realised it was a bad idea so reacted badly. None of that ideal, but understandable. I'm sure I have done similar.

It does seem unfair for you to consider yourself the main parent. What on earth does that make your dh? I work very part time, dh works full time, as such I spend much more time with the kids. I'd be fairly horrified by either of us considering ourselves "the main parent" - we are both parents together and make decisions about our kids jointly.

What is it he does/doesn't do that makes you worry? Maybe you could sit down and chat about what is really important to you and, if he disagrees with anything, try to come to a compromise. He shouldn't be riding roughshod over things you feel strongly about just because you're not there - equally, if you're not at home you have to relinquish control of the minutiae, and if you're struggling with that, you might need to find some kind of coping strategy.

I wish I had some magic solution to get your ds to sleep through but if I'd had one I'd have used it myself!

It is hard being the WOHP because you do have to accept that you are not the one who sets the rules during the day (DH is a SAHD). Its also hard being the main breadwinner.

Pehaps get some counselling for yourself, just so you have some time to get your head around your role as the WOHP etc.

Also now there is a very long weekend coming up I would see if you can tackle some of the night time issues with your DS2. Instead of going in with DS2 to stop him disturbing DS1. I would be tempted to check on DS2 to make sure there isn't a real problem and then take DS1 in with you so he isn't disturbed.

Can you get someone to have both boys for an hour or so during the day over the weekend so that you can both sit down together away from the house and the DC at a time when you are not too exhasuted?

You need to agree a strategy for dealing with things consistently. And tbh from what you've said I think you should be prepared to let your DH take the lead on this as, to be brutal, your approach ain't working so well.

Why not give yourselves say 1 month (all of June) where you both try really hard to be consistent in terms of how you respont to night time crying etc. And maybe agree a schedule where you alternate nights so that you're not getting a shit nights sleep every night of the week. And then agree that at the end of the month you will sit down together again and discuss how things are going.

Part the problem when you're this shattered is the sense that you are engaged in a never ending cycle. So give yourselves a fixed period of time (say a month) to try something out and then see where you are after that.

good luck.

Sorry, I misunderstood about the feeding at night. I know that it isn't a magial solution not feeding at night but it is a help. So - would you like some help formulating a plan? I agree with Chazs that the long weekend is a good opportunity as you and your husband can take naps in the day if necessary.

Yes, couselling for me would be an idea. I just feel like I've signed my life and role as a mother away by making the decision to be a WOHP. I now can't leave my marriage without leaving my children and that breaks my heart. Btw, I'm not sure I want to leave the marriage but it's this feeling of being trapped that hurts. I have had a look on some other threads on MN about rocky marriages and there are messages of support from people who have left and gone on to be happy with their dc and I feel, I don't know, resentful that that could never be me.

Of course, the ideal would be to be happily married but that seems so hard to achieve at the moment.

I AM happy in my marriage but I often still feel trapped. Motherhood, whether you WOH or not, limits your life choices hugely. I work a few hours a week and really resent that my career is limited to what I can do whilst ensuring the boys don't have to have too much childcare (more guilt). DH resents being the main breadwinner and having to make more of his career than he would have chosen to do if I was earning equally.

Any chance of a weekend away with your husband or without?

I just don't know what to do about the sleep. We have followed the advice given on here and in RL and I think we are sort-of consistent.

We have come a long way because he is no longer fed and night and now goes to bed awake and without fuss pretty much every night. I brush his teeth AFTER his good-night feed, which was a big step as I was getting anxious about dental issues, so that's good.

We don't get him toys in the night but what can you do when he's roaring and doesn't even seem to notice you tucking him in/soothing him/ whatever? I can't leave him to cry because, from the experience of previous attempts, it would take hours and probably wake the street.

Sort of consistent - is not consistent enough for a determined little boy - I know I also have one.
I think you leave him to cry - or you go in and lie him back down and don't say anything, it may well take days, take turns doing it. He will get it in the end. You mention you have another dc sleeping in the same room for his sake you have to sort it out.

Do you have other issues that are bothering you other than parenting ?

Lecce, if you know he's safe and not ill then leave him to cry it out. The first few times it will take hours and yes it may wake the street.

But you have to play the long game here and he needs to learn that if he cries for attention at night he won't get it. Therefore he won't bother.

The first few times he'll probably cry harder to get you to react. But trust me in the long run your neighbours will thank you in the long run.

As for your dilemma at being a working mum I guess many women feel the same and perhaps this is what is driving a wedge between you & your DH. In addition to the fact you are overcompensating for your son when you are at home since you don't want to be the bad parent on the few occasions you are there.

My ex threw herself into her work. A business I advised her not to buy when we were together. The result was in the end we did split up. I had the kids and she does indeed see the kids every other weekend. Something which I know she regrets now but what's done is done.

If he won't get up in the night even when he is well, he is being out of order. You can't be the WOHP and night-SAHM, that's not on. I get that your situation is difficult because he can't overdo it - but you're obviously sleep-deprived.

You are going to have to let go though, and respect him as a parent. And also (this will be difficult) accept that he has a clearer grasp of what works and what doesn't for your DS, because the SAHP simply does.

Would you feel better if you dh got a job and the boys went to childcare?