to think that doctors shouldn't go on strike over pension changes

[starwarrior]

Why shouldn't they just suck it up like the rest of us?

Salary is relative to experience.

Why don't you go and google what other professional groups with 15+ years of training get and compare it with the average Consultant salary.....

Yes an NHS Consultant gets paid more than a cleaner but they also have a huge amount of training and responsibility. If you want to be treated by someone with fewer skills and qualifications support this government they are demolishing the NHS.

I will always be able to work and afford good quality healthcare (not necessarily in this country). Will you?

They don't seem to have a problem affording their BMA dues of over 400 quid a year though.

Why is that unions like that are allowed to strike and therefore picket those going to work when less than half of them even voted to strike?

With all the NHS doctors focusing in emergency work for a day I wonder if care might be better on that day for acute cases, as understaffing for that aspect will not be an issue.
Harder for people who have planned appointments that day. I expect that most of the 21st's routine appointments will already have been sent out.

Novak

It isnt a strike and there wont be a picket line because the doctors will all be at work doing emergency work.

What counts as an emergency? At my GP surgery, all ring up on the day appointments are classified as emergencies. Does that mean that all the GPs will be available for same day 'emergency' appointments as they won't be available for planned ahead ones?

hiveofbees In which case what's the point of it all? To register a protest? All the vote seems to show is that more than half do not support the industrial action.

Is this industrial action in respect of pensions and retirement arrangements for all NHS staff or just for doctors? I'm getting confused.

This industrial action is for doctors.

The other health service unions took different stances - I think the midwives acquiesced. Unison were waiting to hear what we did and I can't remember about RCN and the physiotherapists.

Novak - are you not a member of your union? Personally I prioritise it and get v. frustrated when the BMA forget they are my union and instead become a public health lobbying group. Quite frankly I don't care much about smoking in cars and boxing head injuries. I care about my terms and conditions of service and the slow dissolution of the NHS.

Many doctors lean left. The guardian features heavily in doctors messes (not that I've ever been to the mess in my current hospital).

mirry2 This particular industrial action is just for doctors.

Other NHS staff have their own unions.

According to the news tonight, the GP surgeries will be open, but won't be taking routine appointments. I suspect that the receptionists will be told not to let people make appointments on the day unless they sound really sick.

I think that working to 68 years will be the norm for us all and while I don't really want a batty old dr to treat me I assume there will be tests of competency in the future, especially as employment law allows people to work for as long as they want to now. I've heard that air traffic controllers have the highest stress rates of all and wonder if they will have to retire at 68 as well.

mislinnet i hope it won't be just for people who 'sound' sick . I envisage lots of receptionsists having to fend off people groaning and moaning over the phone. I pity them their job on that day.

Thanks for clearing that up everythinginminiture

If it makes you happier I'm a doctor and I earned more per hour on a Sunday shift in waitrose age 18 than I do now.

You're a minority of 1 IMHO.

Doctors' salaries on average are way above national averages, as are the pension provisions, and I believe you will be crucified in the press.

Best tack IMO is to try to show that politicos, senior civil service are hypocrites.

I'm a doctor. I routinely work 2 hours before and after my rota hours; there is always more that can be contributed to patient care. I have plenty of colleagues doing the same. I've 2 degrees, have membership of the College of Physicians, have nearly completed an MD and will sit my speciality exam next year. Work for these occurs outside the hours I'm paid for, too, but presumably patient care is better if doctors work hard at knowing their stuff... There are no jobs coming up in my speciality for when I want a consultant job (started training 1997, due to finish 2014, have never been part-time). Many friends have already moved abroad or are thinking of doing so.
I don't feel badly paid now but when I started work I was paid £3.04 an hour for my on-call hours - fancy a shift from Saturday morning till Monday 7pm, anyone? No breaks, of course, couple of hours of interupted sleep if you're lucky? Conditions for today's juniors are much better but don't forget those of us who are older have put these sort of hours in over and over again.
I make decisions/perform procedures that have a life-or-death issue most days. I know the people I look after value the work I do. I would prefer it if others did too. I don't really see the point of a strike - in any case all my work would count as emergency work - but I can see where the frustration is coming from.

I'm a doctor and I earned more per hour on a Sunday shift in waitrose age 18 than I do now

Everthing inminiture the hourly rate for working in Waitrose is £6.48 gross. I'm surprised you earn less than that.

Mirry - it's honestly true. Taking into account the number of unpaid hours doctors are expected to work and how pitifully they are paid on call, it's amazing but true. I believe Mybaby and it's why I left the NHS eventually.

As someone who was a health professional and is now a training doctor, I appreciate why you are calculating such a low hourly pay.

As a health professional I was paid per hour, standard, work the hours get the pay. work extra - get extra.

As a doctor - thats a yearly pay, the twelve hour shift that gets two hours added and becomes 14 hrs, because say your labour got complicated DOESNT EQUAL 14hours pay! Add that up on every shift, and remember that weeks are not 37 hours and you have soon got Drs on little money per hour.

OH AND I EARNED 21,000 AS A HEALTHCARE PRACTIONER, I PAID 6.5%, THE PM GETS 100,000 PLUS HE PAYS LESS THAN ME.

TIME TO GET OFF HIS HIGH HORSE ME THINKS.

"Doctors pay 26% of their earnings into their pension."

Really, where is your source of information to support this statement ?

We are all having to pay more into our pensions, work longer and receive less.

No-one is a special case. Whilst I support anyone's right to strike, the government are having to tackle the public sector pensions group by group.

The time for protest is when they fail to address civil servant (whitehall staff) pensions in the same way.

There simply isn't the money to support the level of pensions being received by public sector retirees and as the "we earn less so we should have better pension benefits/sick pay/annual leave" has been disproved, the pension funding needs to fall into line with the type of pensions obtainable by private sector workers as this is fairer all round.

"Why should we all be in a race to the bottom" This one makes me because when Gordon Brown stealth taxed the private sector pension pots as far back as 1997 (yes, that's right, as soon as he and Tony got into power), no-one in the public sector cared as their pensions were protected from the hit by being topped up from tax revenue paid by all workers (incl private sector). So the private sector worker had to pay more into their own pension and see some of the tax deducted from their earnings used to make up the contributions into public sector pensions.

They either didn't know about it because it didn't affect them (blinkered public sector way of life) or they didn't care to get involved beacuse it simply wasn't their battle. Either way, I personally have had my retirement age increased by 7 years to date and it's still rising plus I'll get less pension even with paying more into it so I can't agree that it is unfair that this sort of problem is shared by all sections of the UK's workforce.

How unstable do we want our economy to become ? Do we want to end up like Greece et al ?

If the pension scheme was unsustainable I would probably not support the GPs. however it is self sustaining through their own payments so it's a tax to prop up other areas of society.

Why does everyone focus their wrath on public sector gold plated pensions (remember the stat quoted earlier -£4500 is average pension for women) when politicians are seemingly sat on a pedestal claiming expenses and setting their own wages/pensions etc?

Not a Dr btw

I was chatting the other day to one who said people resent him earning a good wage. He's done the course, training, hours and has really highly developed skills and people think he should do it as a vocation.... They don't feel the same about lawyers?