to want to warn you all about /publicise a new fraud tactic?

[afussyphase]

Last night I got a call from a credit card fraudster /scammer (as it turned out). You know the thing, someone calls, saying there's an emergency, there are unusual charges on your card, blah blah. You're supposed to call the bank back, and not give them any information. So I said I'd do that, and he said, yes please, please call us back right away, it's an emergency. I called the HSBC number on the back of the card (08475 404 404) and I got routed back to him via some guy who said he was HSBC customer service! The call didn't reach HSBC, whom I later called on my mobile, realised that their genuine system is automated at first (so it was clear that I hadn't reached it earlier), and they confirmed that this guy was asking for things they do not ask for, and appearing to follow policies they don't have.

My question is: how did they diddle the phones? Has anyone else heard of this (I googled, didn't come up)? if this is well-known obviously IABU but I thought the key thing to avoid these types of phishing is to call the bank back. They have gotten around this (though it became clear that they only had a limited window of opportunity for re-routing the call, because he kept calling me back and didn't want me to call him back after that first time). Scary!

Maybe something to do with the first number that you call on your phone after you speak to him, routes back to him (perhaps he doesn't hang up or something). They are assuming you will obey him and immediately call back, whereas if, in actual fact, you decided to call your mum first, you'd still get him.

I dont know if this is technically possible btw- I just remember that it's the person who makes the call has to hang up (from the olden days when sometimes by gran wouldnt hang up and we couldnt use the phone till she did- even if we hung up, the line was still open, becuase she'd rung us)

ok- just re-read. If you called him back on a landline (and he called you on a landline) then what I suggested is pretty likely.

We keep getting automated message phone calls about PPI and when we hang up they don't so when I've picked up the phone several minutes later I can still hear them burbling on about claims. I had to unplug the phone line and then reconnect it before I could make another call. Did you hear a dial tone when you called the bank? Otherwise maybe the same happened, he stayed on the line.

or maybe they then play a dial tone to you, so you think they've hung up, and then when they hear you dial the number, they play a ringing tone and then "pick up"

God, I shd be a scammer!!

Call your phone company, bt, whoever you are with and ask if the callback to him shows on your account?

Is this it?

That's a clever one, although I'd be suspicious that they sent a courier round to collect the card. Banks can issue new cards quite easily and cancel the old one, so I'd think it was odd if someone suggested that. And i know the banks never ask for the pin number so id be suspicious of that too. But it's good to be aware of new scams.

I've seen an article about this in the last week. It was either on BBC or yahoo news but I forget which. The police were trying to people aware of the scam.

The trick is they call you, but they don't actually hang up. So the call doesn't properly disconnect. So when you call, you think you are calling out to your bank, but actually you aren't. Its faked. They then pretend to be the bank and get your details.

So yeah the thing to do is to call from a different line or wait a while and make sure that there is no one still on the line.

I saw this on BBC news. I warned DH about it who told me that it wasn't possible for them to stay on the line the call just continue when you think you're calling someone else. BUT IT IS, dammit! We had a bit of an argument about it.... Anyway, it's been on the news, so is obviously on the rise. Well done for warning everyone afussyphase.

Am so tempted to link to this page to prove to DH that I was right!

bump

The thing about scams is that when you're sitting calmly (as I am now) it's easy to think through how it's possible, but scammers rely on the fact that they flummox you, and you're so busy finding the number and ringing back, whilst worrying that your card's been used illegally, that you dont stop to think.

They also "move with the times" so as banks say "call us back" the scammers think of a way to intercept that call.

Wow, ok, interesting. So the first time, I hung up and went to google to look up known scams because it always pays to be skeptical. He then called me back, and I made up some excuse and he was adamant that this was very very urgent, etc etc. After that I did call the bank, or thought I did - I was using the handset on the landline so I might not have confirmed a dialtone (or they might be playing fake dialtones).
In Canada where I'm from, you don't need both parties to hang up in order to disconnect a call. One is enough, I am almost certain; 'hanging up on' someone is quite rude because you unilaterally cut off the conversation. But maybe if the interruption is brief enough, at least here, the connection stays.
The banks and advice always say to call back on the direct number "to be sure". I guess the advice should be updated to call someone else first, or call back on another line. These guys are getting cleverer and cleverer. Thanks everyone for explaining it - the not-hanging-up tactic is much nicer to believe than that they actually managed to re-route calls!

I think they do it by not hanging up when you do so keep the line open (which you can only do on landlines, so when you pick up and redial the tone you hear is recorded, then you dial and they play a recorded ring then pretend to answer?

I NEVER answer the land line because it is all scammers and cold callers, even though I never even give out that number! Use your mobile! I get far less on that!

@RichMan - yes yes. He was very skilled at keeping me distracted; in hindsight it should have been obvious from the get-go. Just glad I didn't get taken in the end though :)

@monkeymoma - agreed about the landline, and what is the obsession with payment protection insurance, drives me crazy! But at the moment my Dad's in the hospital in Canada and it's really expensive to call UK mobiles from there ... blah blah blah excuses to use landlines ... More generally, lots of older people probably don't use mobiles much and they are usually targeted by these kinds of frauds. But yes. Landline scammers and cold callers - terrible.

Thanks for posting this, my DH had £600 stolen from his back through online banking with the new card things. I'm grateful to be aware of this scam, I haven't seen it reported anywhere.

Very glad to, hope it helps someone avoid the stress/ lost time/ lost money :)

Wow it's scary how clever these scammers are. If only they put their brains to better use.

Thanks for the warning OP

Our phone doesn't hang up until the other person does. I'm always very careful to listen to the phone as I dial, check for a dialtone and then listen to make sure that my dialling on the touch pad corresponds to the tones played in the phone. Because the sheer number of times I've picked up the phone and the same sales guy is still there wittering on about solar energy have taught me to be a bit careful.

I had a stalker once. He used to ring up and heavy breathe down the phone and you couldn't hang up. I still lived at home then and my Dad said some very bad words to him.

Thanks for the info OP.
I got caught out a few years ago. I was at work and my purse was stolen. I was busy at work when a colleague told me my bank was on the phone. Some bloke told me he was security at Barclays and some girl was about to withdraw hundreds of pounds from my account. He asked me to check if I had my purse. Couldn't find it obviously and got in such a flap that I stupidly gave over my PIN number (he said they needed it to stop the transaction). I'm normally have a bit more common sense but you're on the back foot and worried and they know this. It was very elaborate. Thankfully I got the money back from the bank. I didn't expect I would. What made it worse was it was my birthday the next day and I think it may have been a targeted con at the hospital I worked at.
Thought I'd mention it just in case these people are still doing the rounds

Oh, thanks for that. We've got no money to steal, but good to know this type of thing is happening.

I didn't have much money but I did have an overdraft. Also got bank charges for an unauthorised overdraft. Banks still let you take money out even when you don't have enough in your account unfortunately

The number you said is one digit wrong from HSBC... Could that be it or was it a typo?

Felicity, :( ! I agree it seems worse, if you think they're physically roaming your workplace nicking purses and then taking advantage of your distractedness when you can't find yours! Glad you got the money back though.

Any scams are horrible
Glad you weren't taken in OP. it is really hard not to get suckered in when you're distracted