The answer to our private/grammar/state school angst

[Shagmundfreud]

Remove the charitable status of private schools, as this only benefits those children who would be educationally successful where ever they were schooled.

Abolish grammar schools.

Abolish external selection.

All schools to be truly comprehensive. Places allocated by lottery to get rid of post-code selection. School buses to get round transport problems. Highly structured streaming so that the brightest children could work at a fast pace, unhindered by thick or badly behaved pupils holding them back.

But all children to mingle outside class time.

And lots of one to one support for students who are working hard to move up through the streams, to support educational and social mobility.

Maximum of 20 in each class.

Teachers allocated to teach the bottom sets would receive extra money, training and support, and more non-contact time for lesson preparation.

You likey?

And where would we be without clever MNers to tell us what we've done and where we live?

"And where would we be without clever MNers to tell us what we've done and where we live?"

Why? don't you remember what you've done or where you live?

Jesus.

Of course I do. I also know that 'diverse' is a different word from 'comprehensive', with a correspondingly different definition. And I also know that I haven't done what you describe your imaginary person doing, or said what you imagine your imaginary person to have said.

Don't rise TOSN. It's just one little rabbit keeping its tiny end up- to misquote Rowan.

"I also know that 'diverse' is a different word from 'comprehensive'"

No one, apart from yourself, has claimed that they aren't different words.

You have misunderstood the post and because you have misunderstood the post you have led yourself to believe that others don't fully appreciate what they have said and that they need for you to correct them.

Horrified. no-one could call Tim a rabbit?

brief rise

Well perhaps you could stop saying what 'people say' about diversity and then 'what they actually mean': you're generalising and you're wrong.

Poulay said that you couldn't have a comprehensive because some schools wouldn't have a diverse ethnic mix. I said that comprehensive doesn't always equal every kind of diversity. And then you made up an imaginary person who says she likes diversity but she doesn't. Or something.

Rise over

Seeker - For a split second I thought that you was calling the poster TOSSER as opposed to TOSN

Why do some posters say that they aren't going to engadge you..... and then they follow you to another thread and try to engadge you there?

Ha Ha. I thought I would find you on here Poosh. Have to agree with previous posters. It is a very rare State Primary that doesn't have Council House kids in it but I take your point re: Ethnic minorities. Our village school is approx 50% Working class but has only a few non white kids. Having lived in London for years that is the only thing I dislike about living in an area like this. Very little cultural mix. I think my (mixed race) kids are the ethnic minority!

Because they like a challenge? Because they think that maybe this time you will make sense/discuss things properly/acknowledge that other people are sometimes right?

If comprehensive = a diverse ethnic mix then DSs independent is comprehensive :o

Yes, but it doesn't, that's what I've been saying!

It means a diverse mix of backgrounds too so i very much doubt that it is soup

"If comprehensive = a diverse ethnic mix then DSs independent is comprehensive"

DS's indie class is a mixture of Asian, Jewish, Oriental, European and opf course 'traditonal' Brits. Using this a measure, my indie has more of an etnic mix than many village comprehensives.

The 'funny' thing is that I would have rejected many of these village-ee comprehensives because of it lack of ethnic diversity (I'm non-white) yet it is these parents that are rejecting schools like mine because it isn't diversified enough for them.

Do people genuinely not know what "comprehensive" means when applied to a school, or are they taking the piss and I'm suffering from sense of humour failure?

these parents that are rejecting schools like mine because it isn't diversified enough for them.

Oh lordy. Point missed by a mile here, I think. One poster said that she went for state rather than private, and also said her state school had a fair amount of the children of middle class professionals. Now you've imagined some sort of army of people who are 'rejecting' (as opposed to 'not being able to afford and therefore not being allowed in', that is, I assume? oook.) your school for not being diverse, the poor fools.

You have to laugh.

I hear this argument all the time in defence of Private Ed. " There are the same sorts of families at local comp as at my Indie.." Nonsense. If you had ever done more than check a few cars as you drove past your perfectly good comp to get to your Indie then you would know that. One poster on another thread claimed that this was the case near her home in Manchester. What? No council estates in Manchester? Come on!

Hi Mop. Don't know where you are except that you live near a beach. I hope that the weather has allowed you to put in some decent beach time.

Why are some people so against their children mixing with well off families from a diverse mix of backgrounds? Isn't it reverse snobbery?

Speaking as a person who grew up in a steel town/coal town in the Midlands and as someone who has lived near Peckham, London I see nothing romantic about the places I've lived at or the people I've known.

I got out as soon as I could so I don't understand when parents go - I don't want my kids to go to a school with lots of rich kids. I want my kids to go to school where they can mix with young versions of Poosh :o

"Do people genuinely not know what "comprehensive" means when applied to a school, or are they taking the piss and I'm suffering from sense of humour failure?"

Suffering from a sense of humour has my vote.

Oh, see I don't particularly want my children to mix with versions of themselves. Seems a bit, almost... narcissistic. Why am I against my children mixing with well off families from a range of ethnicities? Well, even supposing I could afford that - love the way you suggest it's in any way a choice for most people - I would think it wrong to educate my children in a bubble where no-one knew what it was like not to be well-off - except perhaps the token scholarship child.

Oh, is it a joke? Sorry, I didn't get that either. Must be one of those 'MN in-jokes': everyone feigns colossal obtuseness? Um.... that's 'vair naice', an um, fruitshoot pombears and stuff.

"Now you've imagined some sort of army of people who are 'rejecting' (as opposed to 'not being able to afford and therefore not being allowed in'"

Why would you think that I would I direct my comments at parents who can't afford private school? You can't reject something if you couldn't afford it in the first place. Don't you think that I know that. Why do you think that you are the only person that appreciates that?

Posters who are anti private schools are often keen to point out that they can afford private schools but they don't out of principle. I was directing my comments at them.

Oh. Well you'd probably need a minority thread for that, I should think.

So this whole thread is a colossal wind up? Fuck.