If Orthodox Catholics believe that Adam and Eve had two sons, Cane and Abel,....

[Vagabond]

And they believe in Creation, how do they explain the human race?

I've always been too embarrassed to ask anyone else.

Mumsnetters..... please explain.

Adam's rib......? Seems a poor excuse, frankly.

by untravelled incestuous inbreds

Er not quite! I don't think it's literal, just how they saw the world and had to start somewhere...

Sorry Iggly....My re-interpretation of your words! Sort of like you see many religious folk doing.....

I'm sure it's evangalical christians who are more likely to take the bible literally.

There was a prog on the telly about it the other night and everything

SQ - are you sure? Are you? Really? Not that evangelicals are more...er..evangelical about what they believe rather than that character defining what it is they believe?

Right, so mr and mrs Noah were genetically pure, thus their children could copulate happily amongst themselves. Whereas now incest is off-limits because of a build up of deleterious mutations. But him upstairs apparently directs the mutational process, so what's he want to create deleterious mutations for? Does he hand them out to sinners, a bit like black marks?

Oh, for goodness sake. There was a big flood somewhere in the middle east. There is archaeological proof. The flood story (it is just a story) was based on that historical event which likely did seem like the end of the WHOLE WORLD to those few who survived it.

Well it sure aint RC people who believe in creationism, and I was under the impression that evangelical christians were more likely to go in for strict / literal / traditional interpretations and incorporate them into their lives more.

Muslims believe that the children of Adam and Eve were all boy/girl twins, an the girl from one set married the boy from the other set, and the rift between cane and abel was partly due to jelousy over his sister.

The laws given to each prophet were different, for example the Quran doesnt give command to honour the sabbath where as previous scriptures did, and in the time of Adam it was lawful to marry that way.

Muslims also dont believe in original sin, and believe it was Adam who ate from the apple first. Actually it doesnt say apple, just fruit.

I'm also intrigued by consistencies between practices and scriptures in 'world religions'. Christ went into the desert for 40 days and 40 nights. ( like he could have done 40 days and only 25 nights?). Rather like The Budhas extended stay in a cave that led to his enlightenment, and of course resonant of the Islamic period of fasting in Ramadan which lasts for a lunar month.

Also all of the 10 Commandments are converted by Budhism into the one commandment of 'not stealing'. eg thou shalt not bear false witness (lying) means to Budhists ' you shouldn't steal the truth from someone'. All of the Big 10 can be interpreted in a similar way.

as a bit of light relief.... if you haven't seen it.

That is really interesting nailak

LeBGF: your quote "God is the cause not only of existence but also the cause of causes. God?s action does not displace or supplant the activity of creaturely causes, but enables them to act according to their natures and, nonetheless, to bring about the ends he intends.... Through the activity of natural causes, God causes to arise those conditions required for the emergence and support of living organisms, and, furthermore, for their reproduction and differentiation."

I honestly can't see how this statement is incompatible with an acceptance of Darwinism. Doesn't it basically just mean 'God started it all ("the cause of causes")? Then all creation just got on with it - i.e. that could be evolution ("act according to their natures")'. And btw he created the environment that made this possible ('those conditions required for the emergence and support of living organisms').

Apologies if I'm missing something here. I may have had a libation or ten two.

such an interesting question and replies!

Now, can we sort out the tooth fairy?
Where does she come from, and what does she do with all those teeth?!

My DD says that a reliable source at school tells her the tooth fairy coughs up for fingernail clippings.
Does this help?

Er, why would only 'Orthodox Catholics' (whatever that is) believe this? I think you're thinking more of fundamentalist Protestant fringe churches who believe in the literal truth of the Bible. The Catholic church has always been about interpreting the Bible through canon law, saints' writings etc. That's kind of what the whole Reformation thing back in the 16th century was about, this guy called Martin Luther etc etc??

Weird, the way people associate Catholicism with an extreme form of Christianity when there are so many more Protestant churches out there with wingnut views. The Catholic Church has, as far as I know being brought up in a very strict Catholic household (am atheist now) that the Catholic Church has supported evolution for some time now.

I haven't had a chance to read all of the posts but this is my understanding of Adam & Eve. When Cain killed Abel and was thrown out of their family by God, this is what he said

4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

This pretty much says that there were others. Why would he worry about everyone if there was no one. I personally think that there were other tribes around.

The key bit: "enables them to act according to their natures and, nonetheless, to bring about the ends he intends ".

This bit is about directed evolution. Darwinist evolution, as we use it today, is never forward thinking (blind watchmaker analogy). I'm bored of this bit of the debate, it isn't controversial. Besides, I don't mind being wrong on this AT ALL but so far, no one has posted a link to back the view the pope supports modern Darwinian view of evolution. A wiki link'll do, I ain't fussy!

I'm much more interested in why people can believe what a bible says....but not all the bits...at least not for the moment. Perhaps they'll change their minds later with new evidence/thinking? Perhaps someone'll say there can't possible be a REAL purgatory, it must be a metaphor (and probably say they always KNEW it was a metaphor, a bit like in 1984)....

I never liked the title for Dawkins's book The Blind Watchmaker. Because his actual point was that evolution makes what it makes, it isn't aiming (or being aimed) to make a particular kind of life.