(Too much) sex education for 5 year olds....

[JemmaDilemma]

I've name changed for this as it's a bit sensitive and I have no idea if anyone is being unreasonabl but it's worrying me, so here goes... (sorry it's long!)

DD is in year 1. She is 5. She is good friends with a girl who is only child of a lesbian couple. This is not an issue - they are good friends of ours. As they have always been concerned about their DD hearing negative views about their relationship/family they have always been very frank with her.

Thiis includes recently telling her the full facts of life, sex and reproduction, with detailed information about sperm donation, IVF etc etc. All the information they have shared with her is factually correct but IMHO it is way more than a 5 year old needs to know.

As a mutual friend has recently become pregnant suddenly this is a hot topic. I feel I am being forced into having a conversation with DD that I'm not ready to have, simply because otherwise someone else's child will give her facts which she may misunderstand. She is emotionally quite a young 5 year old.

The other child, however, is mature for age, having always been treated like an adult. She can be very manipulative and is very aware that she has knowledge and privileges that her peers do not.

I really want to stress that this is not a homophobic concern - I mentioned the parents relationship because it is significant in the way they have decided to educate their daughter ie. giving her the facts before she hears them from someone else. I totally inderstand that.

Another parent raised concerns to this couple about how the information could be passed on to the other children, they laughed at her prudishness and gave her a lecture about children needing to know the facts.

So. Not really sure where to go from here. I was tempted to speak to the children's teacher, to see if she had any advice but I wonder if this is being unreasonable?

Must be a common problem among parents as we all have different views on what children should be told and when, but I'm really fretting about it so would be grateful for any opinions.

Thanks.

I do agree with you, titchy.

But given that the OP is concerned that the first information her daughter receives on the subject may come from another child and may be to a level or contain details that she finds inappropriate, I also think that there is a lot to be said for getting in there first.

If we followed your rule on this, you could guarantee the first most children heard about sex would be some garbled playground chatter.

I think a child should know about their genitals and the fact that no one but they and their parents should touch them as soon as they can talk and understand those concepts. Beyond that, any further information should be based on the child's own questions. The main thing is that you don't give off an embarrassed "don't talk about this" vibe if she does mention these things.

I think you are right op, YABU probably wasn't the place for this thread. It's not really a place for advice as such. You might have been better of posting in parenting?

If they don't ask but are hearing about things elsewhere that is your que to maybe talk to them. My DS has heard all sorts in the playground, I have had to set him straight. I'm dreading the years ahead!!!

FWIW I am glad that the consensus is that this is NOT a matter for the teacher. There's one advantage of posting in AIBU!

Shock horror someone told your DD the truth!!

When your family doesn't fit the conventional mould the you do get questions from your child that another parent might not get and you do have to do a certain amount of pre-empting. My children knew a lot more about racism than the average white child when they started school and I'm sure in a same sex relationship you do need to prepare for the questions that can't me answered by a 'when a mummy and daddy love each other very much' answer. You can't expect them not to do that in case you aren't ready to talk to your child.

Er, no vag no-one's told her anything cos she hasn't asked. Do read the thread, eh?

Actually, scratch that vag you could've just read the OP....

I think most kids do find out something from the playground first - then come home and say 'Jake said that babies come out your bottom" at which point you say 'Oh isn't Jake silly they grow in mummy's tummy then when they're ready they come out of the mummy's vagina [or whatever word you use]'

Quite often saying 'so and so said this or that' IS their way of asking the question they want answered.

disclaimer - if your child has reached year 5 without having heard anything FGS tell them even if they haven't asked the question!!!!

Well actually as you were making such an issue out of nothing I assumed that I must have read the thread wrong, and that she had said something.

Which means YAB even more Unreasonable to get your knickers in such a twist over something that hasnt even happened yet. Are you usually this highly strung?

Oh yeah, I forgot, no-one on MN ever worries about anything to with their DCs. That would be deeply uncool. You're all like sooooo laid back...

I think posting in AIBU, AND posting about a gay couple is probably not a good plan, OP

As everyone has said, this will always happen. There will always be some kids who know the facts/are ready/asking for them whilst others aren't. And usually the kids who are ready for info earlier are often the ones who also enjoy broadcasting (dd is one such!). DD asked lots of questions from about 3years old. Mostly in Waitrose queues/when there were little old ladies around . She knows a lot more than her best mate, who has been told stork shinanegans.

Yes, I would have a chat to your dd. Personally, I would want to make sure that my kids had heard it from me, in a non-garbled version before they heard it in the playground. Esp as the extra detail the other child has heard may well make for a confusing picture.

You don't need to go into the sort of details the other parents have - as you say, there are specific reasons for their communication, which aren't relevant to your dd. But it will mean that your dd is more equiped if that coversation comes up.

I am in general 'wait til they ask' but equally, have initiated chats with ds who was clearly never going to ask, & I could see was going to start hearing stuff in the playground otherwise.

And are you usually so bitchy Vaga?

Unlike most people here OP I see where you're coming from - I would not have been happy with any of my kids hearing this kind of info from other kids at the age of 5 as my stance is "give age appropriate info when they ask" and mine didn't ask at that age.

Thank you for making me feel slightly less neurotic, prudish, pathetic, whatever (smile). I didn't think I could be the only person in the world to have been concerned about this....

I am not the one whos posts got deleted!

I also don't see any issue in giving the facts to a 5 year old. I don't understand the arguments against - it is evidence based that they are more likely to have sex earlier or is it just because it might freak them out?

I don't know; I'm like this with topics like death too. I try to explain it if it comes up in conversation and my DS is 2... I'm sure it goes over his head but he may recall what I've said later on; he continually surprises me with words and concepts that he's squirrelled away.

DSs are 6 and 5. They know basic facts, not too many details (I have never mentioned sperm and how it comes out of the body, or the details of penetration, or putting a penis in a woman's vagina I do think they are too young for that). But they know that there is a special whole in a woman's vulva where the seeds are put in by the daddy, and there's an egg in the mummy's tummy, and that's how babies are made. The practicality of copulation, I keep for a bit later! Then DS asked to see my vagina (!!) he sees me naked all the time, but showing him the actual bit of flesh is too much for me, so I told him that these bits are very private, and we don't show them around, and don't let anyone touch your penis without telling me or dad. So I made a drawing of what a vagina looks like and said that you must not ask for a girl to show it to you as it is very personal and private.

Then he asked if it had a zip. If the vagina had to be zipped up when the mum was pregnant so that the baby wouldn't come out. I've tried my best to explain but it does get a bit complicated!

We do have a lesbian couple friends who have three children, and obviously my DS (the eldest) wanted to know how come they had children when there's no daddy. I explained that sometimes, a woman will fall in love with another woman, and a man with another man. And if they want to have babies they can either adopt and then I roughly explained sperm donation. I have left

I do think that children who know will talk about it at school and will have some kind of 'advantage' over children and that children should know quite early what's what, and how babies are made etc. I understand that it can be difficult for some parents. But you just have to bite the bullet.

I can see where the problem would lie if your child was being told about adult sexuality (by which I do not mean sexual orientation) by another 5 year old.

But this is not the case here; your child is being told about some combination of conception, pregnancy and birth. Those are just the way things are and there is no reason for a five year old not to know about them or not talk about them.

You can't expect other parents to leave their kids ignorant just in case their kids go on to tell your kids. Your child will here stuff about sex from other children no matter what, and why is that a bad thing? I don't understand why you don't want to talk to your daughter about sex? What harm will it do her? It is a positive, useful and healthy to do. Sex and reproduction are normal parts of life and should be treated that way. I was told about reproduction when I asked when I was four.

*hear

In my experience, the birds and the bees conversation happens over several occasions and months/years.

I have told my kids the facts of life when they have asked or when they have started using the language because that indicates "the right time." I wouldn't talk about it just because someone else knows about it.

My children knew about periods and general growing up stuff like hairyness and voices breaking before we had the sex conversation.

I have a 5 year old who has picked up the word sex at school. He knows that it's something to do with adults in love but not anything more specific than that. He's not bothered about anything more specific than that so I haven't said anything more but I suspect that he will find out in the next couple of years. It's hard to avoid the word sex- "family" entertainment programmes like Britain's Got Talent uses the word frequently.

I meant I have left out surrogate mothers for now it's too complicated.

I agree with titchy to a point. I had originally taken the decision that I would answer the questions as they arose but only as much as seemed necessary at the time.

So when DD was 3 or 4 and asked where babies came form I told her that they grew inside their Mummy's tummy and waited for the next question. I expected it to be either "how do they get in there" or "how do they get out" but it wasn't she just seemed satisfied with that at the time (actually IIRC the next question at the time was "what is a Power Ranger").

A few more questions were asked over time whcih I delat with but not a great deal. Finally when she was about 7 I thought that if I didn't have a chat soon she would be getting a garbled version in the playground - as I did!

I chose an opportunity when the two of us were sitting together having a companiable moment and just introduced the subjest and told her the basics. She hadn't already known that but seemed to understand it quite well at the level I explained it.

I am not sure if that helps you OP because it sounds likely that your DD might be on the receiving end of a child's version of events sooner than mine was.

Wow aren;t children allowed to be kids anymoe . The younger the better it seems to be imparting as much information as possible about sex and reproduction, without thought wether the child is old enough to fully understand, and wether they are emotionally ready for such detailed info, e.g sperm donation, IVF etc. Fair enough if my dd asked me where babies come from I would keep it age appropriate and as simple as can be, and leave the details until later. My dd is 5 with ASD/dev delay

Thanks 5foot - it does help actually because it sounds like my DD is similar to yours. She has asked 'how does the baby get out?' before (and I explained difference between vaginal delivery and c-section cos I've had both) but never, never 'how did it get in there?'

I think tomorrow evening, when she and I get home before DH and DD2, DD and I will have a talk.

Am I allowed a small glass of wine first, or is that cheating?