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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

bastard bastard bastard bank. HSBC. refrained from using the C word - just.

108 replies

ThatVikRinA22 · 15/05/2012 22:09

i have an adult son with autism who recently took my bank card and pin and withdrew large sums of money, which has sent us into an unauthorised overdraft.

The HSBC have charged us over £200 in bank charges for this privilege.

It is going to cost over £800 to apply through the court of protection to take control of DS finances as he has no capacity with money, and as well as taking money from us he has got into masses of debt with pay day loan companies etc.

Tonight i rang the HSBC and explained the situation, and explained that the money was taken from our account without our knowledge or consent by our adult autistic son, that we have taken steps to prevent it happening again, and i asked if they could waive any of the charges given the circumstances.

they kept me on hold for ages. really. ages.
then said no.
tough.
pay up

I feel like taking out a bloody loan with another bank, just so i can pay the overdraft off and tell them to fuck off to the far side of fuck, the money grabbing, grasping, bastards.

why, do people just insist on piling on the misery? i dont know whether to laugh or cry to be honest.

OP posts:
WasabiTillyMinto · 16/05/2012 16:41

vicar quite a few of the weekend papers ha e consumer jounalists who pick up issues like this on readers behalf with the bank. Might be worth trying?

I am no jounalist, but your story sounds interesting to me. Nil desperandum.

ThatVikRinA22 · 16/05/2012 16:43

i was wondering about consolidating and doing that Ben, but if we can muddle along for the next 10 months one loan is gone, i can then use that money to get rid of the overdraft, then asap i will shift banks. If i consolidate, my thinking was i might as well get rid of all my debt (of which there is a bit spread out amongst different bits and pieces - credit cards etc) but if i can manage to not consolidate i can probably deal with it quicker and more flexibly. i am so sick of being in debt the idea of getting rid once and for all is a nice one. Plus i have another loan with HSBC so they would still need an account.

i am not a "good" customer - for years whilst i was working part time my bank account has been in overdraft virtually all the time, but it wont be forever, and when its sorted, i will go to another bank, and i will tell them why im leaving them. I now earn a full time wage which should increase with time. One day (ha! one day....) i will be sorted financially. In my other account with a different bank i am putting some savings away.
i have a long memory. im like an elephant, and not just in looks....Grin

thanks again.

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HecateTrivia · 16/05/2012 16:46

Yes, technically they are right, but it wouldn't have bloody hurt them to show a bit of pigging kindness. God knows, they make enough out of us all.

They won't even agree to you paying the charges back at a fiver a month or something?

You've changed your PIN, I hope, and are going to make sure he never ever finds out what it is? how did he guess it?

Well done on the pass.

ThatVikRinA22 · 16/05/2012 16:51

his memory for numbers is amazing, and he knew it, he memorised my bank account number last time when he linked a sim card to a bank account, and then he hid my statements. he finds ways. he knows, however, that this is the last chance saloon, and if he does it again, there are no more chances. He wont discuss it with me, and he knows the financial problems its caused but he doesnt like how it feels to know what he has done, so he just legs it when i talk about it.

he has found 3 different ways to get access to my money over the last 6 years.

He is leaving home in September when he goes to university. It will give me a much needed break.

i now watch my purse/bank/post like a hawk.

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fluffiphlox · 16/05/2012 16:55

Oh Vicar I know you've been through the wringer with this boy of yours but I do believe that this was the third time he had done it. So chalk it up to experience and keep your PIN secret. If he has access to your PIN it's not really stealing in his mind, it's a bit like giving him a blank cheque. Keep on keeping on. (If I got it wrong about its being the third time you can take your virtual truncheon to me.)

shockers · 16/05/2012 17:01

I absolutely bloody, bloody, bloody hate HSBC.

I think that is the first time I've sworn on here, such is the strength of my hatred.

Vicar, I shall pray for an enormous windfall for you, and when HSBC come to schmooze you because they need you more than you need them, you can tell them to feck right off because you're taking your millions to the Co-operative.

This is a scenario I have been over in mind many times Wink.

Hope you get someone with a heart when you speak to them.

Tiago · 16/05/2012 17:03

Vicar - definitely complian further and tell the bankthat they are not complying with their obligations to treat customers fairly. Then complain to the Ombudsman, stressing hos much distress HSBC is causing you. they willbe charged £5000 just fo rhte Ombudsman looking at the case, and you could get up to £300 as compensation for the distress (plus waiver of the charges).

fluffiphlox · 16/05/2012 17:09

Vicar we x-posted there I think. Good luck anyhoo.

DartsAgain · 16/05/2012 17:14

Vicarinatutu, I hope this gets resolved in your favour.

I have had to change my own PIN after realising that while I always covered my hand when inputting the number, my 8 yr old DS was always stood close enough to see and memorise the number, and I overheard him telling his friend what the number was! He wasn't aware of the problems this could cause, so I changed the number pretty promptly.

I noticed after this that people's children do tend to stand close to the person at the ATM, and there are probably more DCs that have memorised their parent's PINs and parents don't realise. The number is only 4 digits after all.

GrahamTribe · 16/05/2012 17:28

CONGRATULATIONS on passing the test vicar. :) I hope you have as much good fortune with HSBC.

izzyizin · 16/05/2012 17:46

So sorry you've got this on your plate, Vic, but before you put your mind to consolidation you're best advised to deal with the immediate problem and get those charges waived or, at the very least, put on ice so they're not racking up ludicrous interest rates while your complaint is investigated.

The Financial Ombudsman service www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk have a helpline that will talk you through the most effective way of getting your voice heard by the bank that likes to say no.

The helpline numbers are 0300 123 9123 and 0800 023 4567 and the service operates 8am-6pm Mon-Fri and 9am-1pm Saturday.

If you should get any problem like this again, forget call centres and 1001 strings organs murdering a selection of music musak; go to your bank in person to register your disgust complaint or stand outside it with a placard Grin

If it's necessary to put a complaint in writing to a CEO or similar, always cc to your MP, and any agencies such as the FO that might be relevant - in this case I'd suggest the National Autistic Society - even if you don't actually get round to sending copies Wink

On the separate issue of your driving test WELL DONE YOU - have a Wine to lubricate the nee naws & bum wiggling, and have another Wine to drown your temporary sorrow at your ds fleecing you again Sad

DPrince · 16/05/2012 18:02

Firstly congratulations. There are a few things to consider. How do they know you're not spinning a tale? He could have drawn it out with your consent and your pulling a fast one. You may need to provide proof. Have they refunded any money before. Usually they won't do if they have already. I understand you don't want to report it to the police, but with a crime number and going to the branch they should help. My card was cloned. I went to branch who couldn't have been more helpful (HSBC). The contact centre told me there was no such thing as card cloning.
your ds must know what he is doing is wrong. you said he has hidden statements in the past and he only does it to you. Why does he only do it you if he doesn't know its wrong. I really recommend going to the branch
I am sorry as you seem to be having a really hard time and I hope it gets better. I am not judging your son. Just observing.

JesusWept · 16/05/2012 18:39

Congratulations on passing your driving test Vicar Grin

I can just see you now with the nee naws on, flying by the seat of your pants Grin

ThatVikRinA22 · 16/05/2012 19:05

hi izzy - thank you, that is most helpful. I will put some effort in then and give them a call. its worth a call.

and i will have a cheeky Wine later thank you. Got more training on the nee naws tomorrow but at least i passed the test....first time around they sent me back to my district without even letting me try...Blush though in my defence i started the course after everyone else....still. was a bit of a blow! felt like a learner driver again.

D - i understand that, really, but i just cannot quite 'get' how unscrupulous the banks are, my wages paid by my police authority, go into my bank each month, im a police officer, and i am struggling massively with DS, and while i take on board what you are saying, he is like a little boy who knows he did something naughty, but doesnt quite get the gravity of what he did - you know how if a child breaks something they make a clumsy attempt to hide it? thats what he did with the bank statements - that was his clumsy attempt at hiding it - not because he thought of what he had done, but because he knew i would get cross, and he hates it when i get cross, if i shout he stands with his hands over his ears because he doesnt like the noise. Its so hard. living like this is hard enough, it really is, and there is a never ending supply of people who like to make it harder.

ive learned my lesson with DS and him having access to my bag or purse, but its a hard hard lesson to learn when its someone you love and want to trust when he says he understands and wont do it again, but every week, i find another thing out, another blow, another smack in the teeth. He promised me faithfully he would not ever use another pay day loan company - he promised, and then DH looked at his bank this week, and asked what a payment out was, and, (this is DS mentality), he said "i cant tell you while mums in the room because she will go mad" so instantly i know what it is, and i just said i was past it, really past it, so he said he had a "quickquid" loan which he forgot about.The way he thinks is that if he has a problem, it needs a solution. Doing this solved it for him. (like taking my money solved it) He is actually quite pleased that he solved it himself this time. Confused I cant get through.
Whats even scarier is that he will not "fail" the capacity test so even i apply to get control of his finances - its highly unlikely i will get it.

i have always managed to do the right thing by him, and, where he is concerned.
Despite his autism, he is great with other people, he has a job (part time) he has managed well with his studies, he is pleasant to be around, he is funny, he is affectionate, still quite child like really, its just this one thing, money, he is clueless,

i might as well be trying to touch the moon sometimes. He is not heartless, or ruthless, he gets upset if i get upset, he doesnt like to upset me, but he cant quite equate his actions, with my feelings of upset/anger.

and thats the one thing i cant teach him.
i can explain it, until i am blue in the face, but thats all i can do.

gosh i digressed slightly there didnt i....

OP posts:
ThatVikRinA22 · 16/05/2012 19:08

oh that took so long i missed your post jesus ! thank you. and thanks to all for the well wishes and the congrats re the driving.

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Ben10NeverAgain · 16/05/2012 19:18

Vicar

I wouldn't ever advise consolidation, Izzy is right. We simply got a loan to clear the OD that was never going down as we were always in it. I had the account since university in 1995 and it was basically OD until 2009. It was like a weight always dragging me down never to see a positive number even once I'd got paid as the OD was so high.

Good luck with it all. So long as you stay calm and factual with your complaint I'm pretty sure that you will get the OD charges refunded/waived. The reason I advised emailing the CEO was for speed. However it is worth a try (if you can bear it) to go to the branch as Izzy says to see whether the branch manager can authorise fee waiver to that level. If he can't then the problem is that the complaint may go into a queue to be answered which could take some time - ie longer than the 2 weeks until you get charged. If the BM can't help, then the CEO/NAS routes by email is best as they like to get a quick turn around with complaints. We had 2 working days to investigate CEO complaints whereas complaints in the normal queue could be up to 40 working days.

droves · 16/05/2012 19:20

Vicar I'm sorry the bank has been so , well , rubbish . You'd think they would want to help given the circumstances . I hope it gets sorted out for you . Sad

Might be a wee bit inappropriate , but by god , that's one clever boy you have ...in a way I'm sort of impressed .

Very Intrested in how the older asd kids act , it's something I look forward to with dd4 .

Bit late , but well done for passing the test Grin.

ilovemydogandMrObama · 16/05/2012 19:41

Think you should make an appointment to see your MP in his/her surgery and discuss. Your MP would probably write to the head of HSBC and am sure it would get sorted out quickly.

The problem with getting the Financial Ombudsman involved is that the bank isn't being sympathetic but am not sure that this could be enforced?

The only other thing I could think of is asking the bank for a copy of their disability discrimination policy.

ThatVikRinA22 · 16/05/2012 19:44

thank you droves

he is amazing with a computer - but i always have the likes of Gary Mckinnon in my head so i often warn him about laws in the Real World - he lives his entire life on his computer.

he is doing a computer science degree. Good at maths, computers, science, crap with money.
and mums.

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AreWeHavingFunYet · 16/05/2012 19:45

OK so maybe HSBC are technically right but it's the amount of the charges that bothers me. Fair enough 10 or maybe even 20 quid but 200??? How is that possibly justified?

I wouldn't give up trying to get them waived.

So Envy that you can drive with nee naws Grin Well done!

ThatVikRinA22 · 16/05/2012 19:47

cheers ilove - i think i am going to approach this with the mindset that i will go through the motions regard the complaint procedure and see where that gets me...will go to the ombudsman if necessary but feel a bit guilty as i did not really keep terribly good tabs on what was happening until it was too late - i am always overdrawn - but by the time i noticed DS had been doing this for a good 2 months and had taken quite a considerable amount - so i feel culpable in many ways.
I do however, think the HSBC is kicking me while im down. I can right this but not with such hefty bank charges piled on top.

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ThatVikRinA22 · 16/05/2012 19:50

they are taking the bulk of the charges on 30/5/12 - another £150 going out.

they already took £68 last month. His dipping my account went on over 2 months, but as soon as i realised what was happening i contacted them by phone - so they knew what was happening before they billed me for the charges.

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AreWeHavingFunYet · 16/05/2012 19:53

This sounds very underhand from HSBC in my opinion. Not too worried about letting the customer know about things that will result in charges.... hmm......

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 16/05/2012 19:57

Could you get a safe and put the cards etc in it. I don't understand how he knows your PIN though - does he open your post when you are sent one? Could you arrange with the bank to have a new account opened (ie new bank account number) and not have the statements sent home, but have them sent to work or somewhere where your son can't access them at all?

However,the charges seem excessive.

CelstialNavigation · 16/05/2012 20:02

If you wanted to contact the "Consumer Champions" section of the Guardian (the backpage of the Saturday Money Supplement) they seem very good at getting banks and companies to have a rethink in individual cases and show a bit of common sense and compassion.