to be annoyed at the health visitor?

[extremepie]

We had a visit today from the health visitor who we haven't seen in aaaggges (which I'm not unhappy about as I don't really like her) - not really sure why they decided to do a visit as DS's are now 4 & 5 but could be because DS2 has autism possibly?

Anyways, I've always found her a bit, I dunno, off, she just always has this disapproving look on her face that makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong!

While she was here she brought up DH's previous mental health and made notes about the fact that he is no longer receiving councilling or taking antidepressants - this was not a problem but she went on to say that the fact DH will be our sons full time carer when I return to work after college 'an issue' and that it was 'a concern' because of his mental health.

Since when do people with mental health issues become incapable of looking after their children?

Ok, maybe some people might not be but DH has had no MH issues for a number of years and is currently fine (hence no AD's or councilling).

She also said that maybe I should only work part-time so that I could let him work part-time because 'most men feel like they need to work'.

I just didn't like that she was implying that:

because DH has had MH issues in the past he is not capable of looking after his children

his MH issues are probably caused by the fact he isn't working and therefore feels less like a man

any MH issues he did or does have would be magically fixed by him going to work.

She also seemed very cats bum mouth about the fact that we have moved the boys' bedroom around and they currently: share a bed, have a tv in their room and make a mess in their bedroom (because no 4&5 yr old boys do that ).

I probably AMU but I just hate the way she makes me feel that everything I do isn't good enough and like I expect a letter from the social to drop through the door after her visits :(

Am I just being overly sensitive?

See, precisely this kind of thing is why I have concerns about the HV system.

I started a thread on here once asking what HVs did - not being narky, just didn't grow up in this country so didn't know.

I got all these people telling me how they were a vital support system, trained nurses with CP experience and BF support experience, yada yada. Which sounds great!

.....Except. In practice a lot of people seem to experience them as being form-filling busybodies who nose around their houses and make smug, ill-informed comments.

I understand that that is not the intent behind the service but it seems a common experience.

Also, people seem afraid to rebuff them for fear of bringing down the wrath of Social Services. I would not want some total stranger poking around my child's bedroom but with her comments about 'concerns and 'issues', I might be frightened she'd try to cause trouble and might just give in.

Frankly, things like this make it seem like state surveillance rather than actual community medical support. What a shame. And what a total waste of public money, if this woman gets up her patients' noses so much that they avoid her and hide from her.

OP - The truth is that your boys are 4 and 5 and sleep in one bed. Whether they choose to sleep in it or not, every child should have their own bed, surely? Why was the HV annoyed that you had moved the room around?

The boys' main carer has had MH issues - it is natural that HV would be concerned and need to keep track of how things are going. It wasn't an issue before because you have been there. If dh will be main carer soon, they have a duty to ensure that they dcs are OK.

Was your son borderline obese as a baby or did she just say that? It should be clear in his red book whether or not he was overweight. If he was not, you should have made a complaint about the comment before.

The thing is, you are not unusual here. Thousands of people go through this, and yes, it' big brother, nanny state, whatever, but in the end it's not about you, it is about children and their safety, and the duty the services have towards those children. You should be glad that they are taking these duties seriously. Try to lighten up and let them do their job.

Get a bed for your ds, I'm sure that will be the end of the matter and you won't hear from them again.

She HAS a second bed for DS! Strewth.

And the OP said her DH has ALWAYS been the main carer for the last 4/5 years, this is not a new thing. Read the thread, ffs.
( i had a cat's bum mouth HV too, according to her I was both a pushy middle class mum making him do far too much too young, or I was a laid-back neo-hippy who was altogether too lax with him. Jeez)

I agree with the posters who say it is very unlikely that a mother would have been considered an unsuitable carer because she had suffered from depression in the past (and that seems to be the extent of the dh's MH issues)- there wouldn't be enough mothers to go around if that were the case.

And the comment about a man needing to work was totally uncalled for.

I think you need to be very careful about how much information you divulge to this woman: she won't have known where your dcs end up sleeping if you hadn't told her- don't tell her things. Let her see the two separate beds and do not volunteer information.

Of course HVs raising legitimate concerns are about the good of the children- but is HVs peddling sexist views on childcare for the benefit of anyone?

Seems like she was bringing her own opinions into it, her personal views, rather than being there in a 100% professional HV way.

Having bunk beds for two young boys is totally fine! Tell her, and anyone else who narks at you to butt out about that.

The bed sharing thing annoys me - my 3 girls would all share a big double if I let them, which would then give space for a playroom in the other bedroom. They would love this but I don't do it as I know they would be bullied at school. Abroad it happens all the time and only our society dictates children need their own bed. It imo is not a sign of neglect... if the sheets were filthy then yes that is neglect.

My HV came to advise me on sleep training the twins... gave no advice, said "hmmmmm yes it's hard isn't it?!" and then quizzed me for pnd. If she was so worried about pnd why did she visit 3 weeks after I asked for the help! Her main concern was whether I had contact with other adults - I had a friend over when she visited who she completely blanked in a very odd way. I politely spoke enough to be polite then she left. I won't bother asking for help again. It's such a shame, my 1st hv was fab.

Just thought - why was she looking at dc's room?! My hv does not go upstairs, just the living room!

I think you had my HV, extremepie.

She arrived after the birth of dc4, insisted on meeting all my other children (presumably to check they were alive and well and not being kept in a cellar!) and generally made me feel spied on and judged. We are not a family who has had any SS involvement, so I know her questions were the usual checks for PND and looking out for the wellbeing of the dc. I understand and can see the sense in checking that all is well in families - I am pleased that people are looking out for children. However, something is very wrong when a HV could make someone who is maybe suffering from PND feel worse than they did before she arrived.

Even women without PND (like me) are vulnerable when they've just had a baby and a HV jumping in with both feet, would actually put women off seeking support if they later needed it.

The idea of HV is very good, but something needs to be done about the delivery of this service, before everyone opts out, simply because they don't want to be scrutinised unfairly, in their own homes.

I would disagree that mums with MH issues are not questioned. I know that my GP, HV and counsellor have had reminders in my notes that I have a child and a MH history. The GP and counsellor always ask how DS is, in a subtle, chatty way, but I am pretty sure they are checking in for his sake. It's never been an issue as it is clear he OS not affected, but they are aware and checking.

I feel that she made the comments she did because she felt that I should be the main carer of the boys and was using DH's previous MH as an excuse to push him back to work because that's where men belong according to her

It's funny actually, if someone said 'a woman's place is in the home' that would be considered sexist and people would get upset about it but essentially saying 'a man's place is in the office' is not offensive?

You're right tarty, DH has always been the main carer, I have been working on and off since DS1 was born, I went back to work when he was 4 months old and this most recent year is the first time I haven't worked because I've gone from part-time to full time at college!

She was asking a lot of questions, like I said she didn't see the boys room before we moved it so she wouldn't have anything to compare it to? I felt like she was 'checking me out' asking to see their room but I thought if I say no you can't see it she's going to wonder what is in there that I don't want her to see!

I have tried to get them to sleep in seperate beds before but to be completely honest DS2 has so many sleep issues (due to his autism) that even giving him medication hasn't really helped and if he wants to sleep in a bed with his brother and is willing and happy to go to sleep that way, I am inclined to let him!

I know it's not a great solution long term, and we will have to change things at some point soon but sometimes you just want to take the easiest option that doesn't involve fighting with him all night to get him to sleep!

The purpose of the visit should have been made known to you in advance.

Also, as a trained nurse, she should not have been discussing your OH's MH issues in his absence without his consent. She could be struck off for that - it breaches medical confidentiality - especially if she is making records about it without his knowledge.

Pseudonym is it breach of confidentiality even if they are married and live together and there may be child protection issues?

The only reason HV is there is because
a) DS has disabilities
b) Dad has mental health issues.

The sleeping together (yes there is only one bed and a second cot-bed which has been put on its side) and the alleged historical borderline obesity are additional minor issuesl.

Involvement from SS or otherwise usually means you are referred to support and advice - a good thing I would have thought. Perhaps they could give you some support with sleeping arrangements or some intensive therapy for autistic DS?

OP you do not talk about how Dad's depression might affect DS's, or about how sleeping in one bed may be limiting the non-autistic DS's development. You have persistently talked about the HV being wrong to be involved at all. This attitude will concern them more, rather than less. Sorry if I'm not telling you wht you want to hear.

Horset - CP concerns can override confidentiality between professionals, but the person with the MH issues needs to be present and aware of what is being discussed. It should not be discussed with the person without the issue, unless that person brings up the subject. Should a GP discuss a wife's issues with her husband in her absence, especially if the GP brings the issue up?

Just to clarify OP, the HV arrived at your door unannounced, you had no appointment to see her or any reason to think she may vist?

If it was me, NOBODY (except the police but they have no reason to visit me!) would get though my door if they turned up like that. I would have said oh, sorry I'm just on my way out, please phone me and make an appointment (have done so several times when people have just turned up at the door, not HV, but you don't HAVE to let people into your house).

It does kind of sound like someone has asked HV to check up on you though - I have 4 DC and none have been seen in our home by HV since tiny babies though I think they do a 2year home visit in our area now.

My almost 8 year old and 2 year old share a bed most nights.

We have bunks, a spare bed, a guest futon and the toddler has a toddler bed. They are free to sleep in any of these that they might choose at any given time.

And yet, most mornings when I go in to get them up the 2 year old has crept into his brother's bed and they are snuggled up like puppies.

I don't know about HVs OP. Mine rocked up once, had a cup of tea and a peice of cake, commented that I/DS2 were looking well and we never heard from her again.

"OP you do not talk about how Dad's depression might affect DS's"

Did the OP not say that Dad's depression was in the past and that he's now well again? You keep seeming to suggest that it is an ongoing problem- has the OP said anything to suggest that?

"or about how sleeping in one bed may be limiting the non-autistic DS's development"

how and why would it limit his development if he decides, having the option of staying in his own bed, to climb in with his brother? isn't this something children have always done? is there any evidence that it affects development?

my children did that too- despite being put to bed in their own beds every nigh- I just didn't go telling HVs

Cory - The autistic son is climbing in with the NT son. And doen't have a bed of his own set up.

It might not affect his development at all, not for me to know- but essentially it is OP's lack of concern about it that the HV may be flagging up.

Horse - I thought OP said she had bunk beds but he climbed down from his?

Not a cot bed?

tbh I find this whole idea chilling. DP has had depression in his early 20s - would that mean if I got pg he would be an unfit father?

I really hate the idea that supposed CP concerns override everything else, like the OP's privacy, the patient's rights of her DH, the children's right to decide their own sleeping arrangements (ffs), etc. It totally trivializes actual abuse.

Oh, no, have checked - my bad. Still think this sounds like spectacularly unhelpful behaviour on the part of the HV.

Honestly, OP might given her circs - DS with SN, DH with MH issues in the past - one day need support. Do you really think she will turn to this HV then? If not, hasn't the HV rather shot herself in the foot?

I don't actually think HV will be back anyway - my guess is she's just ticking some boxes and everything seems OK. But if OP reacts indignantly, that her privacy is more important than her DS's well being, the HV may well be back.

Every child (in our borough anyway) with disabilities is automatically registered with Social Services, most never hear from them at all.

Horse - sorry to pick this up hours later - but it seems to me it's not about DS well-being. If it were an actual CP issue I'd be the last to dispute. But because a little boy wants to double up with his brother - really?

Does that mean that any time an HV asks an intrusive question - say, about your sex life, as some do - you should answer it submissively because otherwise they will come back and start some dossier on you?

This really does not feel like helping vulnerable families. It feels like surveillance. I think I will be refusing HV visits from the off, if this is what it gets you.

Horsetowater Wed 16-May-12 13:09:31
"Cory - The autistic son is climbing in with the NT son."

And why would that make a difference? Do you think autism is contagious?

Peasant - of course it feels like surveillance, that is what it is - but you have to get over it and understand that they're there for a reason, you have nothing to hide, let them do their job and get out. Why get hung up about it? It is a routine check for the child's benefit. Nobody asked about anyone's sex life.

Cory - if the autistic son becomes dependent on the NT son it's not really fair on the NT son. It's the parent's job to ensure that both are sleeping well and preferably in their own bed - but I don't think SS care about that really anyway tbh. I'm sure they'd rather have the lad take care of his brother than them forking out for foster care.

-OP you do not talk about how Dad's depression might affect DS's, or about how sleeping in one bed may be limiting the non-autistic DS's development. You have persistently talked about the HV being wrong to be involved at all. This attitude will concern them more, rather than less-

I'm not sure how Dh's depression may have affected them, I haven't asked! To be honest I'm not sure DS1 would understand the concept and DS2 is non verbal, so....

How would sharing a bed be limiting DS1? Not being defensive, genuine question? I honestly never thought it would be a problem, I used to share a bedroom with my sister and we shared a bed all the time! When we had seperate beds set up properly the climbing-into-each-other's-beds went both ways, if anything DS1 climbed into bed with DS2 more often - when we moved DS1 from a cet bed into a big bed he would climb into the smaller cot bed to sleep with his brother.

I didn't actually mention that they shared a bed but when she asked about DS2's sleep pattern I said that things had been better since we moved the room around, then she asked to see the room and I had to explain why they were sharing a bed.

She did send me a letter saying that she would be visiting the following week but gave no indication as to why.

I didn't say to her that I thought she was being rude and ask why was she was there!

Is it notable that I have also suffered from MH (depression) in the past? Is is also worth noting that I tried to commit suicide when I was depressed? I am also not taking antidepressants (never have) and am not receiving councilling. Why were my previous MH issues not brought up even once? Especially if she's implying that I should be staying at home with the kids?

I just thought that was interesting, if MH issues were her big 'concern' about DH being the main carer of the children why were my MH issues equally, if not more important?