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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Need advice on a sensitive topic

64 replies

hertsfem55 · 13/05/2012 21:35

I live in my Mothers house who is 90 and has dementia, I moved in 10 years ago and now, am my Mothers full time carer. The house is ex council and was bought by my Brother, for my parents until their death and then it goes to him. He works in Saudi Arabia and has 2 children , having sent the first, back to England to the house 6 years ago at 16 to study for her A levels.
He paid me £25 a week for her keep, that included everything , plus all the lifte etc to and fro parties etc. 2 years ago he sent the other girl and has continued to pay me £25 a week. She will be leaving school this year and will contuine to live here, however she has a boyfriend who spends almost everyday here and I need advise on how much she now should be paying ,as it's been £25 a week for 6 years.

OP posts:

Birdsgottafly · 13/05/2012 22:01

I would say your free rent would cover the costs of his children living in his house

No it doesn't because the agreement is that the mother lives there until death, rent free.

Is this all in writing, or has your BIL bought the house with your mothers discount an it is unoficial?

If so the normal rights of inherency takes over.

lazymonkeyface · 13/05/2012 22:03

OP, my parents live in KSA, my dad is shocked at how much everything costs when he comes back. Maybe your brother hadn't realised?

Birdsgottafly · 13/05/2012 22:03

I have paid for any repairs on the property.

You need independant legal advice from a RL source.

ErikNorseman · 13/05/2012 22:04

Your brother is taking the piss out of you.

Lovelynewboots · 13/05/2012 22:04

Well in that case you do need to see a solicitor pronto to ensure that you stay in your home. I suspect you are in for a long and hard battle here to be quite honest. Please post again. I am sure there are plenty of people here who could give you good advice.

Original poster

hertsfem55 · 13/05/2012 22:05

I cannot begin to tell you all how my life has changed, since I now have a very difficult life , looking after a 90n year old with dementia. I love her and i love my niece and have parented her and her sister to the best of my ablility. This niece has enriched my life but we have had some tough issues to address and I believe we have got through them together, she trust me and confides in me , however the issue is what to do about the £25 a week .

OP posts:

purpleroses · 13/05/2012 22:06

If you are paying for your nephew's food then he should be paying you more than £25 a week for food and bills. I don't think your brother would have any business charging you rent - you are looking after his mother and it is your mother that still owns the house at present - not him.

If you were to stop caring for your mother she would have to go into a home and the house would have to be sold to pay for the care. If she lives more than a couple more years in a home all the money would probaby be used up and your brother would get nothing. So you are doing him a huge favour by caring for her. Completely unacceptable to expect you also to be feeding his children off the small amount of money you have.

When your mother dies you will be a sitting tenant - your brother can ask you to leave as it will then be his house, but he will have to give you notice. I would check out your rights regarding this. Shelter have a good helpline and can advise you.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 13/05/2012 22:06

Birdsgotafly, you sound like you know what you're on about, does this have potential to become one of those big family legal battles where the OP has a fighting chance of getting half of the value of the house?

purpleroses · 13/05/2012 22:07

sorry - neice not nephew

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 13/05/2012 22:10

What to do about the £25 pound a week is to sit with all your bills and work out how much it actually costs per week for each person to live in that house the way it is currently run. If you look at it as an even share between you, your Mother and the niece for the time that she is there.

Then you approach your brother with a figure.

squeakytoy · 13/05/2012 22:11

the agreement is that the mother lives there until death, rent free

The mother yes, but not the OP, the OP has lived there rent free too, when she would have paid rent or a mortgage had she lived elsewhere.

I do sympathise, and it is a situation that sounds as though OP has been taken advantage of over the years by doing all the care for her mother without any help from the brother.

Do you have savings OP? because it sounds like you could be in a very harsh situation at any time.

What you need to do is contact your brother and tell him that his daughter needs to support herself with regards to food as you are not her mother and cant afford to feed her. SHe is old enough to go and get a job and do this herself. I assume you dont do her washing etc, and she does a share in the housework?

With regards to the bills, presumably your mothers pension also covers them too, not just "your" money.

Jinsei · 13/05/2012 22:11

OP, is there something that you're not telling us? I can't for the life of me understand why you would take on the responsibility of caring for your brother's teenage daughters for so little money, unless you were really close to him and wanted to do it as a favour. But if that were the case, surely you'd also be close enough to just let him know that the money wasn't enough and he needed to pay a bit more. I don't get it.

But I agree you should probably seek legal advice.

Do your nieces assist with the care of your mum?

Original poster

hertsfem55 · 13/05/2012 22:12

It is legal, that my Mum stays here until she dies , then he gets the house. It's a catch 22 situ, ation , I gave up my job of £27k a year to go to what I recieve now. I will never get work again, as I am 57 now, it is a horrid horrid place for me to be in, I am told I cannot be rehoused until my Mother passes and then I need to be given notice to quit, by my brother.

OP posts:

Lovelynewboots · 13/05/2012 22:12

I can't imagine what you are going through is easy OP. But you really need to have a proper conversation with your brother. The living costs that you are incurring because of his children are important of course, but you need to be sure of what your brother plans to do with the house and where that leaves you in my opinion. You sound like you have taken good care of all of them.

WorraLiberty · 13/05/2012 22:16

I feel for you OP...he's taking the piss

I've heard of so many people who have done this. They buy their parent's or their Gran's council house...let them live there rent free with all the promises of maintaining upkeep etc and then they don't.

Is there any way you can prove you've spend money maintaining the house?

If so, you might be able to reclaim some money when your Mum passes if he decides to sell up.

CurrySpice · 13/05/2012 22:18

If he's working in Saudi, he is earning well I would guess.

I wonder if he realises how much you're struggling?

He may not realise that £25 is not the same as it was when he left the UK.

My guess would be that he could quadruple what he pays for his DD, and help you out with all sorts of stuff, and still not even notice the money

Talk to him. Don't be shy, this is important.

Good luck to you. Yousound lovely and I hope when I am old and infirm I have a DD like you to look after me xx

Wheezo · 13/05/2012 22:18

OP Doing repairs on the property is a good point in your favour in terms of looking at estoppel and making an equitable claim on the property.

I think you need a long term plan - as far as you are able you need to gather up any evidence (receipts/quotes/photos of property before and after) of spend on the property. You also need to show your loss in terms of giving up your job and your reduced income as a carer for yours and his mother so old P60s etc as compared to your income now. You also need to start keeping receipts of everything you are spending on his family. Start gathering as much info as possible before you get any legal advice to ensure you make the most of any time you spend with a solicitor. Have you got any idea of the value of the property now? A quick way without getting estate agents out for valuations is to look for similar properties on property websites like find property.com etc and work out what is the average £ per square foot for similar properties and apply to your mum's house.

You haven't answered any questions on your relationship with your brother but from what you've said already (just the facts) he doesn't appear to be a very caring brother and is in fact using you and your good nature and your sense of duty and love for your mum.

I'm afraid I don't have any practical advice on getting him to play fair now - but I am very very worried about your position when your mum goes and you are left having taken time out from your career and basically subsidised his family to be then be turfed out once your use to your brother has diminished.

Please start thinking about getting some legal advice - there is a good legal section here too if you want to post there about any of this.

Original poster

hertsfem55 · 13/05/2012 22:19

I was never asked if I would care for my nieces, they were just sent her, I was told they were coming and it was not discussed with me.
My niece will sit with my Mother when I need to run errands and am sad to say, she does nothing in the house and yes I do, do her washing.
I stay here because of my Mother, what I could have saved by working, I have forgone to care for her. If my Brother had to pay for my Mothers care he would have had to sell the house. I am not hiding anything.

OP posts:

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 13/05/2012 22:19

Your brother used your mother's discount to buy a council property.
He has left you to be your mother's carer for years.
He has used you to care for and then chaperone his children for years.
He has not even covered the upkeep of his children.

He has used you for years.
You need to take legal advice. Has your mum made a will?

Do you think your brother will see you right when your mum dies?

I think you need to have a frank talk with your brother or perhaps put it all in writing. To be brutal, you have been a doormat for years, I doubt if he will expect anything to change.

I am sorry for the situation you are in.

LentillyFart · 13/05/2012 22:25

Horrid situation OP - you really need to listen to the wise posters who have recommended you get legal advice and pronto.
I presume your Mother gets a pension? Is that disposable income for you? How does it all work?

skybluepearl · 13/05/2012 22:25

Can you write to him and explain that you are finding it very hard financially as you have had to give up working to look after your mum and income is very very low as a result. You are all living off one small pension. Explain you have been happy to have the girls here of course but that the bills, food for both girls and petrol for driving girls around is becoming in increasingly expensive and that 25 pounds really only covers the cost of food for one girl. Highlight that they are young adults and could be contributing to their share of bills themselves

skybluepearl · 13/05/2012 22:27

Email him a list of the cost of a weekly food shop, weekly bills and petrol for the house.

squeakytoy · 13/05/2012 22:28

Skyblue, one girl has gone back to Saudi according to OP, so that is only one of them lving there. And there are two pensions, not one. OP has a pension, gets carers allowance, and the mother will be getting a pension too.

What does the mothers pension get spent on OP? If that is accumulating, then hopefully her will is in your favour and does not just leave everything to your brother.

CaptainVonTrapp · 13/05/2012 22:29

What is your relationship with your brother? Are you on good terms with him? Do you chat?

Inclined to agree with MrsDeV.

Selks · 13/05/2012 22:34

PLEASE get good legal advice, and sooner rather than later.

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