to be cross about DH's constant excessive spending?

[BellaBahBooBoo]

Am I being unreasonable to be cross and upset about this?

About 3 years ago my DH ran up a large amount of credit card debt, it was around 5k. The minimum payments were taking us into our overdraft every month and so we were in debt with that too. We ended up doing a consolidation loan through our bank and have got sorted and been ok financially since then.

Then a few month ago a credit card statement came addressed to DH which I opened and saw he had run up yet another credit card debt, this time of around £2k. He has always been very vague about it and has never as such told me how it was run up, although he is happy enough every month to have the minimum payment for it coming out of our joint account! He has an expensive hobby so I'm assuming he ran the bill up paying for equipment for it and doing the hobby itself.

Everything has been fine since then financially, however I have just this moment looked at our online banking and seen that the past month he has been taking up to £50 out in cash from our bank account every 4 or 5 days. He has also transferred money over from our savings account to the current account, without telling me, presumably so I won't notice the shortfall of money, although our account is far lower than I would expect it to be at this time of the month, as we still have just under 2 weeks to go until DH's payday. He is currently away with work and won't be back until Tuesday so I can't discuss it with him until then. I then checked our account out of which all our bills come (mortgage, insurances, that kind of thing) as we have a standing order going in to there once a month to keep it all separate and organised and that is overdrawn to the max, so he has been dipping into there too.

I really don't feel like he's doing anything sinister with the money, I think he is just bad with money, but he'll never discuss it with me. He seems to take care of his needs first, ie buying anything he wants, before considering if there is enough left for our DCs and I. He also won't budget or compromise, for example he won't take a packed lunch to work when he's not working away and will spend up to £10 on lunch per day. He has a rather expensive hobby as I mentioned before, very much a keeping up with the Jones' type hobby. If he wants something he buys it.

I am the opposite and am careful with money, but then I feel I get walked over and go without. I am a SAHM as our youngest child is 2, but I have my own account into which maintenance for my eldest child and child benefit is paid and I use this for all child related expenses and I still have managed to save a fair bit of money in it over the past 2 years. The only thing is, he thinks he can spend whatever we have in the joint account as he pleases and then starts wanting to spend the money I've saved up, which thankfully he has no access to.

I just do not know what to do about his spending. He won't rein himself in. I am planning on going back to work at some point in the next couple of years, it's very difficult though as DH works away a lot and works long hours, and I wouldn't earn enough to cover childcare for all our DCs if I worked now. I would like a bit of financial independence though. He doesn't restrict my spending but I just would not spend money that isn't there, I'm not like that and I prefer to save for things but he will never save for things he just buys them. If we save, he finds a use for the money whenever we have £1k or so built up in there. And if I get any money for myself, for example for Christmas, he tries to get me to spend it on things we need rather than on myself.

Why would you want to do that severnofnine? That's very naive in my opinion. I'm glad I've gone through that with my dh & learnt. I don't rely on him or my parents. I'd like to be in the position to help my parents not the other way around. In the nicest possible way I think it's time both of you grew up financially op.

How do I need to grow up financially? I don't understand

My parents are very wealthy and choose to clothe the children. Even if I clothed the children myself, my parents would still always buy them clothes and shoes, they are just very generous. I don't think I'm being childish by allowing them to do something that they are willing to do and can easily afford and that benefits the children and I. Believe me there will never be any need whatsoever for me to help my parents financially.

this isn't your fault, Bella

but you need to think about why you are allowing your husband to abuse you financially

would your children go without clothes and shoes if your parents didn't buy them ?

yes, they do it 'cos they want to...but they shouldn't need to

My ex was a bit like this OP, he spent loads of money he didn't have but i thought he had just one credit card and it was all under control. A few months after we split up (not because of the debt - he cheated), bailiffs came to my door looking for him as he had defaulted on his credit cards. Note I used the plural there. It turned out he had over £15k of debt spread over about 4 cards which I didn't know about. Luckily he'd moved out and the house and everything in it was mine, so the bailiffs just left and went to find him elsewhere. However I had to get myself financially disassociated from him because while together we'd had a joint account, so I was linked to him and he was in such a financial mess that it would have affected my credit rating, even though he'd moved out.

My point is your DH secretive and selfish and it's affecting you and your children, not to mention other people (ie your parents buying all your kids clothes and shoes - why the hell should they have to do that?). He's done this before and he'll do it again. In your shoes I'd tell him it's over, get maintenance for the kids, financially disassociate yourself from him and let him deal with his spending addiction and subsequent debt by himself.

I would go to the bank and iron out a deal such that the joint account can only be used for standing orders into the account and direct debits and standing orders for bills.

The terms for the savings account also need to be changed so that confirmation is needed before money is withdrawn. I do not know if this is possible but I would definitely talk to the bank.

I wouldn't do it out of spite or anger (I would definitely be fuming though). It is just to let him figure out that this is his problem since he is so keen on being a bit selfish and he needs to sort it out himself if he doesn't want to talk about it with others... It also provides a protection or barrier for when he really does something stupid.

HOnestly truly I'd be telling him that I would be filing for divorce unless he sits down and agrees to change his ways. You will end up in serious serious debt, lose your house (if you have one) and end up with zero credit rating whilst he lives the life of riley and you and the dc go without.

Perhaps Op is very aware of the financial cushion her very comfortably-off parents will afford if it all goes tits-up ?

love, sort this out

this is no way to live, and you do not have an egalitarian marriage

He's stealing from you and your children.

Nice guy. Not.

You asked AIBU. People have told you where it will end up if you don't take control of it now. If that's your attitude to your parents just get them to give you an allowance every month. Obviously they don't have a problem financially so you can live off them.

I agree with anyfucker. You said you don't have to worry about clothing your children because your parents do. That's not how it should be. It sounds like you have enough coming in so you shouldn't have to worry about it if they stop tomorrow. If I were your parents I would be pissed off that I was buying clothes but my dd was worried about money because her dh does what the shit he wants.

I cannot understand how you are so calm. I would be incandescent with rage at both the betrayal and his casual attitude!

He's ripping off his own wife and children to do some hobby in order to keep up with the Joneses?

Red card offence the first time. He wouldn't get a second chance with me. His attitude shows utter contempt for you and the children.

I always say that you never know how you'll react until you are in the position yourself. I am always reluctant to shout leave him for this reason. But this right here, this would be a deal breaker for me. I cannot abide grown ups who plead they are 'bad with money' as an excuse for abdicating responsibility to living within a budget. What they really mean is they are too fucking spoilt and self indulgent to deny themselves anything and they expect other people (in this case his own wife and kids) to pick up the pieces and do without.
Fuck that. I could not share a life within someone who by his behaviour is threatening my kids security. He doesn't give a shit how the mortgage or bills will be paid, how they will be fed. He cares about no one but his own fucking pathetic whims.
This would be curtains for me.

OP - your DH does this because he can. He knows if things go tits up your parents will bail you both out because of the grandkids and you. I wouldn't be surprised if this is why your parents buy the kids clothes and shoes already, knowing you're on a tight budget.

If you go back to work he'd proberbly think "great, more money to spend on x,y,z"

This situation is fine if you don't mind the worry, paying off his debts and scrimping/doing without. Sorry kids no holiday/ballet/heating because daddy decided to spend the household money again this month.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but this isn't his first time. How long are you going to let this situation drag on for?

Sorry for the assumption, OP - I must live in a very different world - I couldn't picture being able to provide for even one DC on child benefit alone, so couldn't see how you could be managing all the costs without making the maintenance spread out, IYSWIM. TBH, I still can't work out how you can cover the cost of raising a child (even without having to clothe them) on just Child Benefit and still save?

Perhaps the 'childish' comments reflect the situation ie that you don't appear to have any control over your family finances and rely on your parents to provide for the children in the absence of any kind of responsibility of your own to face up to the fact that this is a fairly dire situation. Great that they are able and willing to buy clothes etc, in that situation I would be putting the money thus saved into accounts for the future (particularly the money that is provided for your eldest - if it is not 'vital' for day-to-day needs because your parents are paying for those then it should be in a Uni fund)

Balia, I think you are being rude telling the OP what she 'should' be doing with maintenance money!

what about the child's food? electricity? housing? school meals? transport? heating? These are undoubtedly all covered out of the household money and are day to day needs. Maintenance money is not just for clothes and shoes you know! The maintenance we receive for my eldest DD goes into the pot like all other money, which - shock horror - my other children benefit from too. If someone told me that we should be saving maintenance towards DD's uni fund I would be most annoyed with them. If I was still with DD's father we wouldn't be saving the maintenance amount per month towards uni for her, it would be going into the household account, so why because someone has split with their DCs father do you think the money should be treated in a special way?

What do you want Bella?

You asked if you were unreasonable. OF COURSE you are not.

But then what do you want? Change, to vent or advice?

My personal advice is that you cannot change a man who is so entrenched in this risky behaviour. You either accept or you leave.

It sounds to me as if you accept it.

This sounds so sad on so many levels. If there is maintenance for the eldest, it isn't the first unsuccessful relationship. If your parents are very wealthy and helping with clothes and shoes, are they also going to pick up the pieces if the house gets repossessed, dh goes bankrupt, help with uni fees? Are you prepared to take responsibility for household finances and get yourself back to work? Is DH prepared to reflect and help him and you?

What are the overall outgoings compared to income. How old are you and dh and the dc and also your parents. Are you happy for your parents to take responsibility for you and will they be able to long term.

Do you actually realise how extravagant £10 per day on lunch is - especially if you don't have it. I'm not sure about the context of it all and what your grasp is on reality.

I know I wouldn't be doing it or putting up with it; I certainly wouldn't be taking money from my parents for necessities, regardless of how well off they are.

I got flamed last night for referring to having money but OP my dh earns a vast sum and he wouldn't dream of spending £10 on lunch every day. It would be beyond his ken completely and mine too.

Married, you're always referring to having money - you must be used to the flamings you get for it by now!

£10 is a ridiculous amount to spend on lunch - that's well over £2k per year . If that's his casual attitude to spending money, you'll be in fairly serious trouble soon, unless he earns a huge salary.

My DH and I have one pot where all money goes into and all bills and "family" spending, e.g. days out, holidays, Christmas presents come out of. We also have a monthly SO to our own accounts; in effect our "spends". I'm a SAHM too, but fortunately my DH sees his salary as family money and is not entitled to a higher share of it than I am.

I don't suppose your DH would consider something similar..? No, probably not. But your situation would be a deal breaker for me, perhaps even more than infidelity.

£50 pounds on lunch a week! Where is he eating ,the Savoy?
He is financially abusing you. It is a form of domestic abuse.
This is the THIRD thread ive seen about financial abuse on this forum this week alone. Its rife.

it certainly is, carer

I've seen a fair few boasting posts as well

ones where it really isn't necessary to wedge in how high earning your H is, but it gets in anyway

give me xenia anyday, who at least only boasts about how much she earns, not vicariously through someone else

AF . Mind, if my DH's salary was anything to boast about, I probably would.

Just asked DH what he spends on lunch on average... he reckons about 50p a day over a month.

Been married 30 years without a need for joint account by the way.

Like other posters before me I wonder if he has a gambling addiction. If he was just spending too much you would see more card payments.

He is actively deceiving you with money, hiding things from you and lying to you then manipulating you by stropping.

That is the real problem. Not whether you have enough left or who clothes you children.

good points AF. OP if it were me i would want to know EXACTLY what hes spending the money on. And then strops like a big kid the minute you want to discuss it. Selfish bastard.

I'm not trying to be rude, Hex, I'm just pointing out OP had stated that she pays for "all child related expenses" out of CB and maintenance for her older child. CB for two would be £27. (When the DH is spending £50 on lunch). I have no quibble generally with maintenance being added to the family pot when it doesn't remotely cover the cost of raising the child, or when the family contribution to the raising of the child is equal to the maintenance, but I don't think it is OK to take money paid for one child and use it to prop up a situation where the family pot is being used selfishly by one person. It is this child's money, not the OP's, and she did say that her DH wanted to get his hands on it. But it seems to be a bit of a pattern here - DH's lifestyle is financed by OP's parents, her ex, the CB...I would love to be living the kind of life where my DH running up £7K of debt without telling me would cause me to be 'a bit upset' rather than facing financial ruin, I suppose it takes all sorts.