to be a bit grumpy with cub leaders?

[Mummyinthedark]

Well, DSs went to a cub camp this weekend. They had a lovely time despite the rain but...seemed to me to be poorly supervised on a few counts. Things that have made me grumpy are:

• neither DS cleaned teeth or washed (3 days 2 nights) the whole time and are adamant they were never asked or told to do this - or to change their clothes
• dinner finished very late each night - one night it was around 11.30 pm before they got the last cup of hot chocolate done - admittedly this is according to one of the children there, may be an exaggeration
• they got back an hour and half late. Given that they'd all had a big weekend and had to get up for school today this was not helpful.

• one boy who is a good friend of DS2 spent half a night with most of his body outside of the tent so got very wet and cold and is now unwell

Yes, I do appreciate the hard work and effort put in by the leaders and am normally quick to remind other parents how brilliant it is that they do all that they do just for fun...but, really, AIBU to think they should be a bit more organised and a bit more on top of routine and health/hygiene for the children in their care?

I didn't exactly expect them to go meekly to sleep at 8 pm but they don't seem to have been encouraged to settle down and given the sort of routine I usually associate with the scouting association.

Oh yes, I'm afraid YABVU. Children of that age should not need a leader to follow them around and tell them how to do everything. Brushing their teeth and sleeping inside the tents is something they should be capable of handling themselves.

If the hot chocolate thing is true, what's the harm? Midnight hot drinks on a camping weekend sounds fun for that age!

The leaders give up their own free time to look after children, they don't get paid for it, they just do it because they love it. For a parent to be grumpy about such little insignificant things like this is actually quite awful.

Sounds like a typical cub camp to me. My son has been away lots and if I put a new bar of soap in his bag it usually comes back unopened! When kids are away from home they always stay awake half the night you need to factor this in when deciding bed time on return. Its once in every few months. Not washing or doing teeth won't killem. And I agree, at what point does an 8 year old not realise they should be IN the tent.

Well at brownie camp my DD didn't go to sleep until about 2am! I don't care, just glad these people volunteer to take the kids away

Trouble is, the fuckers keep bringing them back

Have you got any idea whatsoever how much time and energy the leaders and unit helpers go to every week, week in week out, for FREE to educate, entertain and mentor your child/ren?

Why don't you try investing that much time and effort on a long term regular basis and THEN come whining on here. No don't tell me - you couldn't possibly because of x y z reasons.

Your child is being educated, not babysat. Part of YOUR job as parent is to teach enough self sufficiency that they can manage the bare basics of survival such as keeping clean and sleeping by this age!

Before you moan, think of what the leaders are doing for YOUR child for FREE.

My ds1 went on a activity camp aged 10
Toothbrush came back untouched
Shower gel also
3 pairs of pants unchanged
And he only changed his socks cos they were wet.

Getting to bed the first night at 11.30, sounds late but possibly the plan of the leaders. First night, kids are hyped up on excitement so put them to bed late, hopefully tiredness will overcome high jinks in tents, and actually kids are asleep earlier than if been sent to their tents earlier.

Washing and changing clothes - I'm a Scout helper and every camp we tell them to have a wash etc (morning and night). Do they? Possibly not judging by the amount of soap still in their packets and bone dry flannels discovered 5 days in on Kit Inspection. In fact Kit Inspection is usually carried out so A) we can discover any contraband but more B) parents have packed the bag and kids have no idea what is in there (and that there IS a soap/flannel/toothbrush in there). Also imagine being in a tent with 4/5 other kids. It's dark and you can hardly see in the bag. Most of the time they pull out what comes to hand and wear that ie the same 2 t-shirts get worn for a week. I am not their mothers and am not going to patrol what they wear everyday (although the worst offenders are noticed and spoken to).

YABU

' they got back an hour and half late. Given that they'd all had a big weekend and had to get up for school today this was not helpful.'

OP hasn't said whether they had warning of the fact they were running late, she appears to be cross that they were late. Not as fed up as the leaders mind.
She may have been part of the cascade phone system we use at school for trip problems but still be grumpy.

I have a DS in cubs and a DS in scouts - I have helped at camp with cubs and it is really hard work work really hard and give up their weekends for camping in crap weather like the weekend.

Parents usually help out at camp and do the cooking - hot chocolate is usually just before bedtime - any issues with that volunteer and help cook at next camp .
If you don't want them to get back from camp the day before school then drive down and bring them home a day early - I have done that before because I know how tired they get .

The boys love it all - OK they don't clean their teeth for a couple of days or wash - it won't kill them.

Next time when there is a camp go down for the day and help .

My DS would have rated that camp a huge success .
One of my friends told me that several times at Guide camp she woke up with half her body out of the tent because they had pitched on a slope and she slid down. The reason the leaders didn't notice is probably that they were exhausted. They don't patrol the site during the night as far as I know so unless someone happened to go to the loo and find him...
As for being an hour and a half late coming back, well this happens on school trips so why not on camps. It is sometimes unavoidable.

GeneHuntsMistress - you have said exactly what I would like to say to the OP. And actually it usually costs us money to be leaders - petrol/training (I have given up three Sundays minimum this year)/phone calls/have you any idea of the admin time involved ? let alone the weekend/week's camp etc etc - yes, we can claim expenses but I am pretty sure very few leaders do.

I think your attitude is totally out of order OP - why don't you think about the volunteer leaders instead of your precious child who hasn't even got the initiative to brush his own teeth without being reminded.

worra the worst thing was they said she would be asleep by the time we got back onto the main road. She didn't sleep until her usual time grrr

Cub camps and Guide Camps are very different. My DS1 has been camping with the cubs this weekend. I believe he did not clean his teeth or wash much too. Brilliant and good for him - how much fun must it have been! The Guides however is very very regimented... DD likes it like this. DS1 likes cub camp the way it is. Everyone happy.

You expect them to wash!! My DSS came back each time with sponge bags untouched!
Sounds fine to me- did they enjoy it? I suspect yes.

Im taking my Cubs away in 2 weeks time.

The planned 'lights out no noise' time is 10.30pm.
To expect them to sleep any earlier is laughable really, we recently organised an indoor sleepover for them and there were a few who stayed awake til 3am.

Yes we actively encourage that they keep on top of their personal hygiene, but ime they dont tend to bother.
Run the toothbrush under the tap to wet it and chew on some toothpaste is about all they seem to manage.

They should have an 'In Touch' system in place to notify you they would be home late. If they didnt they are breaking 'the rules'

The camp is 2 nights out of the year, chill out.

Also bravo to GeneHuntsMistress! I think most parents forget we are all VOLUNTEERS who not only give up 2 hrs a week to attend basic pack meetings, but up to 4/5 additional admin meetings a week, training courses that span a whole weekend and endless hours filling in bastard Risk Assesments and the like.

www.50things.org.uk/

The NT produced this list, my DS did a lot of them thanks to the scouting movement.

And for a weekend of free childcare its really cheap to send them to camp

No doubt everyone who went on cub camp this weekend had shite weather - whilst us parents stayed at home with our central heating on and curtain closed and snuggled under duvet with no kids to deal with !

Which side is your bread buttered eh OP ?

A few of you have asked about the late return - no parents weren't told until we went to pick the kids up when we were told it would be about an hour later than planned (which was to be 6 pm)

We could go home and come back or hang around. We stayed at the hall as the kit can had come back so we could help get that unpacked and stowed.

Most posters have told me in no uncertain terms I am BU, and assumed I take all the leaders' efforts for granted. I did point out in my OP that I do deeply appreciate what they do - my DSIL has been a Brown Owl for 25 years and i have seen close up what a great job they do, as well as having very fond memories of my own leaders.

'I did point out in my OP that I do deeply appreciate what they do' - really

All sounds about normal to me!

Filthy tired kids who have had a whale of a time, hopefully!

Re washing / teeth / clothes, YABU. Very much part of the experience to cut loose from the day to day at home and enjoy some camping grubbiness.

Re getting to bed late, that's excusable for one night, tho if it were a week of camp and it were the same every night I'd be a bit .

Re some poor little 8 year old sleeping half outside the tent, that's not on...did this really happen? Surely the leaders do the odd check and wood have noticed.

I am a veteran of many happy years Guide camping and oh my goodness, yes, it was regimented. Spent the whole time washing, cleaning, cooking, making washing up bowl stands out of wood, pitching massive canvas tents. Loved it. I think it appeals to a certain type of girl!

Get grumpy with cub leaders and they are quite likely not to give up their spare time but suggest you do the job!!

You did point that out in your OP

But then you kind of went on to show a complete lack of understanding

I went on Guide camp at about 13 and spent the night half out the tent. It wasn't a dare, or planned - I somehow seem to have wriggled down to the bottom of my sleeping bag and then carried on wriggling some more and pushed the bottom of the bag, with me inside it, out of the tent. I still don't know how I got through the tie-ups at the base of the tent. I woke up early, wet and cold, because it had rained and the sleeping bag was soaked through. Not much anyone could have done to prevent it as we all were in bed and asleep, unless you think the leaders should have doen hourly patrols through the night to check that no-one had fidgeted themselves completely out of their tent in their sleep.....

They were an hour and half late back? Have you ever tried to break camp in the rain? You're lucky they were back before midnight.

ok, thanks for the posts. I am taking it all to heart and having a re-think. so helpful

Whoopydo, don't make assumptions please. I don't see any activity like this as cheap child care. I am more than happy to spend weekends and holidays doing stuff with my kids. I wasn't snuggled under the duvet this weekend, I was giving my brother and DSIL a break and looking after my mum, who has quite bad dementia. DSs would have been with me if they hadn't been away.