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AIBU?

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Original poster

to write a complaint letter about the poor smelly lady in toddler group

36 replies

secretlyahippy · 04/05/2012 23:38

Our local toddler group is held in the local church and it is lovely. The volunteers are great but its been getting quieter and quieter there. There is an elderly lady in her late 60's who helps out a bit and she obviously has a few issues (ie you can never get away if she starts chatting to you, is a known hoarder etc). Its difficult to get a rapport with her as you can never have a conversation with her - she just talks to you without taking a breathe.

The main problem is with her personal hygiene, she does have a very strong odour. This has gone on for years, there have been periods when its not been too bad (strong only when you stand about a foot towards her) to quite bad (the odour is very strong and pungent)

Recently though it has been terrible, the toddlers is held in a large hall and the whole room is completely overpowered by the strong smell. I used to be a homeless nurse and I never encountered anyone with such a strong odour.

Mums have been leaving in the middle of the session. Last week the smell was so bad that when she walked past I started to gag and when I looked at a few mums sitting alongside me - they were starting to gag too.

I spoke to the toddler leader who said that the church ladies have been having gentle chats with her many times over the years and it does improve but quickly deteriorates again. The leader has obviosuly had enough too and said that that nothing was done the last time she complained.

She has asked me to write a letter to the church who accepts her as a volunteer and asked me to get a few mums to sign it so that something will get done.

Something needs to be done as the smell really is unbelievable. I'm not sure what the cause is - she has obvious dental issues and her clothes are a bit grubby. I think though - it is just general self neglect and years and years of not washing. Its not good that she is in a workplace that looks after small children and babies (although she never interacts with them). However, she is obviously lonely and if I write this letter she be asked to leave and will spend all her time on her own in her cluttered house.

OP posts:
TheHouseOnTheCorner · 04/05/2012 23:42

Oh it's hard. Our toddler group was a church one and they used to let a lady help out who was similarly positioned...not a bad smell but some odd habits and a demeanour that scared the children.

I put up with it. It's a charitible thing....that lady in your group probably has no other lifeline. If you write the letter she may not be able to come back. It's not a workplace really is it? But a voluntary thing...run by volunteers.

Really all she can do is chat with her again....don't write the letter. Simply keep your distance. You will only be attending for a while and she needs that group...you could always befriend her and help her yourself?

TheHouseOnTheCorner · 04/05/2012 23:44

And why can't the leader writer her own letter? Why ask you to do it?

QwertyGerty · 04/05/2012 23:45

Does she needs some care, such as a socal worker?

You mustn't put up with it though. Don't let someone's bad hygiene ruin your group.

ThatVikRinA22 · 04/05/2012 23:47

why is it up to the mums to complain?

it s very sad but im afraid i would find another toddler group. if its as bad as you say this lady may need some help, but i wonder if she would accept that she is having problems?

if its a church run group surely they could speak to a social worker? i have rung up for elderly neighbours before now who were struggling with self care.

seeker · 04/05/2012 23:48

I just don't believe the "gagging" thing. Grow up!

ThatVikRinA22 · 04/05/2012 23:52

seeker - some people are bad enough to make you gag - i had a person the other week in my works car who smelt so terribly i had to drive with the windows open and then the following day the team who had the car had to send it away to get valeted - these are police cars and they see some stuff, but this was the absolute limit, the smell would not go from the car until it was sent for professional cleaning. If you have never smelt anyone that bad count yourself lucky, but im afraid, some people can smell worse than you can imagine!

TheHouseOnTheCorner · 04/05/2012 23:53

Seeker I belive that. There was a homeless man who used to get on my bus and the smell was the most awful thing. A mixture of vomit, shit and sweat. I used to be holding my breath the whole time...it can be so bad you gag. Why be rude and tell OP to grow up?

Get0rfMoiLand · 04/05/2012 23:54

I think writing a letter and having the mums sign it would be both cowardly and cruel.

This all smacks rather of schoolgirls ganging up on the smelly kid at school.

If it really is an issue the play leader should be able to try and speak to the church leaders again wothout a letter from x amount of mums saying 'we the undersigned think that Brenda smells'

TheHouseOnTheCorner · 04/05/2012 23:54

But the point is OP....she has been going to this group for years...the parents who use it are temporary fixtures. This lady neeeds help not chucking out. she needs a visit from social services by the sound of it. Ask the leader to arrange it.

hhhhhhh · 04/05/2012 23:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Get0rfMoiLand · 04/05/2012 23:56

Reading that back I am not saying that you ARE ganging up, rather that the letter would make it seem so.

I can understand why such a strong smell owuld put you off, but it is such a delicate situation.

Get0rfMoiLand · 04/05/2012 23:56

Reading that back I am not saying that you ARE ganging up, rather that the letter would make it seem so.

I can understand why such a strong smell owuld put you off, but it is such a delicate situation.

IWantMyHatBack · 04/05/2012 23:57

Agree. I'd ve calling SS to see if they can offer support

Groovee · 05/05/2012 00:04

Seeker we had a member of staff who had poor hygiene in the nursery, who we tried to keep out of the playrooms because she was so smelly. When the owner tried to speak to her about it, her brute of a partner arrived on the doorstep, threatening us all.Sad

I would write a letter as the church may listen more.

Original poster
secretlyahippy · 05/05/2012 00:06

I understand where you are coming from seeker. But really the smell is that bad. Its so strong, when you breathe in it catches you at the back of your throat. I've never known anything like it. I've been elbow deep in infected diarrhoea when nursing without thinking anything of it. This poor lady has such a strong smell - you can smell it from the opposite side of a 30ft hall.

I think the option of support has been previously explored but declined. There have been lots of gentle chats but nothing has improved. The playgroup leader has complained but nothing has happened. She wanted the mums to do the same so that it would give it added pressure for something to be done. Other mums have agreed to sign it. I have drafted a letter which puts the emphasis on supporting her. I just feel sorry for the lady as she appears to have plenty of issues. She can be quite difficult so I don't want to befriend her as I have 3 children under 5 so haven't the energy to take on any more challenges.

OP posts:
marriedinwhite · 05/05/2012 00:08

Why can't you have a gentle word with the vicar. The diocese should have contacts who can help this lady and therefore help all of you. Why can't it be done with kindness to help her?

Original poster
secretlyahippy · 05/05/2012 00:12

You are right - I do have a horrible feeling of 'ganging up' against her even though that isn't my intention at all. The toddler group is getting quieter and quieter so will probably fold up anyway if nothing is done so the lady will have lost the company of the group.

OP posts:
solidgoldbrass · 05/05/2012 00:15

Hang on, so this woman is not only stinky but unpleasant? And competent enough to come to a toddler group week after week, scare the children, annoy the mothers and stink the place out? I think there's a point at which you stop pussyfooting around someone who is spoiling things for everyone else and just ban her from the group.

MsPaperbackWriter · 05/05/2012 00:18

But if she is driving mums away you have to do something? Hopefully it will get her sone support? I think you have to do this.

Original poster
secretlyahippy · 05/05/2012 00:19

Yes - she definately needs support but that support has to be accepted. I think rather than writing a letter - Ill make some support enquiries and make an appointment to see the church official to discuss it face to face.

OP posts:
FizzyLaces · 05/05/2012 00:22

This is a really hard one op. She obviously can't manage alone and won't accept help. Phone your local social work/social care helpline and register a concern? Not on that it is ruining your group, but hard to isolate her further. The right type of support for a person in this situation could work wonders.

TheHouseOnTheCorner · 05/05/2012 00:23

Hang on Solid the OP said "difficult" not unpleasant...

garlicbutty · 05/05/2012 00:24

There are medical conditions that make you smell. Ones I know about cause: fish odour; ammonia/urine smell; acetone smell. The fish one is genetic, I'm not sure of the others but know some cancers can make you pong.

People with these conditions have been known to commit suicide due to the social ostracism. So, even if this woman's odour is a lifestyle symptom rather than a medical one, it seems unduly harsh to cut off one of her few lines to normality.

missingmumxox · 05/05/2012 00:27

I don't think it is your responsibilty, but the leader of the group may have brought this up with the vicar/priest and she/he may have said I have had no complaints.
common problem in the NHS unless a patient or relative complains nothing gets done?
I would pass it back and make it a pastoral issue, she clearly is struggling, but willing, Teeth are a BIG worry, as bad teeth can result in heart issues, don't ask me how, I just did a google search and it was full of scare stories from the daily fail, about teeth brushing but carious teeth do cause heart conditions, I worked in a oral surgery dept in a NHS Hospital many moons ago and it was mainly removing carious teeth due to the risk to the heart, I remember the surgeon always used to mutter 200 death a year are due directly to carious teeth, X amount could be attributed to it, I really think he hated doing it, so had to remind himself why he was doing it.
Poor lady, poor you

springydaffs · 05/05/2012 01:51

yy it is deemed excruciatingly embarrassing to tell someone they smell, a major taboo. But those women at the group need to get their courage together and get on with addressing this problem with this woman - doesn't anyone know her well enough, or respect her enough, after all this time?? I had a friend who basically went down the pan re her mental health. She began to smell so badly and now and again she came to stay but as I had foreign students staying I had to clearly say that she would have to shower and change her clothes when she stayed. It was just a fact: she couldn't stay at my house if she smelt. That may seem horrifically patronising but it really was a fact: she - or the smell - couldn't ruin my business. The minute she was in the door I immediately led her up the stairs straight to the bathroom and put her clothes straight in the washing machine. While she was in the shower the doors and windows were flung open to get rid of the (horrific) smell from the hall.

I never did say the word 'smell' to my friend but alluded to her need for a shower and change of clothes. I appreciate that my situation was easier because a shower and change of clothes were to hand but it is bizarre that the PTB at the playgroup are not directly tackling this severe problem but are suggesting letters have to be written to address it, when conversations with her to address it have been successful in the past. Far rather 'hurt' her by addressing it than hurt her permanently by getting her out or, God forbid, write letters which everyone signs. She clearly has MH issues and this aspect can be matter-of-factly and kindly addressed - weekly, if necessary. It's possible to convey it with respect, protecting her dignity. Perhaps the PTB could get someone who has the training to advise on how to say it - because it has to be said.

I feel irate about this because it is yet another symptom of mental illness that people tip-toe around and are terrified of and shun - though I of course appreciate that it's a hard one to take. My friend was great - a writer, great conversationalist - and she smelt really bad. Because she had a mental illness - which wasn't the whole of her, only a part.