To send my child to private school until a non-faith state school can take him?

[Waspie]

Three facts about me ? I?m an atheist, I?m a socialist and I have a 4 year old pfb

On principle I?m against private schools and voluntary aided church state schools. And there is my problem. We didn?t get any of the four preferred schools we selected (our catchment school and three nearest by walking distance). Instead my son has been allocated a CofE VA school. Not only is it a faith school but it has the worst KS2 results in the borough, its Ofsted is the worst I?ve ever read and it?s miles away.

The private prep is a ten minute walk away, has class sizes of less than 15, has glowing Ofsted and ISI reports from last year, doesn?t select academically (just first come first served) and every child achieved level 5 SATS in Maths and English at Yr6 last year.

Obviously we?re on all the waiting lists and will appeal to the two of the four which aren?t ICS appeals (catchment school included).

We can?t really afford private school by the way; we?ll be funding it by selling my car, ebaying anything that might be worth more than 10p, cashing in the ISA and re-mortgaging. I appreciate though that we are lucky to even have prep as an option.

So, am I being unreasonable to consider private prep school for my pfb while we are on the waiting lists?

Would you get a refund for the remaining weeks of term if a place came up at one of the other schools part way through the term?

well.... it depends which you are more against I suppose: V/A church schools or private schools! Though also the fact that the V/A is miles away would be a factor.

If you're going to re-mortgage and all that though, I would think very carefully. You may end up finding it very difficult to move him when a) the money runs out or b) you do get another place.

Not unreasonable to be considering it, but it sounds a bit extreme to be selling everything and remortgaging in order to do it.

Realistically, how long can you afford school fees for? how likely is it that a place will come up within a year at your preferred schools?

You will have to give a term's notice at the private school. However, when a place comes up at the state school, you will have to move immediately, so will lose that term's fees. Is that something you are ok with?

Most people make sacrifices (including principles) for their children. Just do what is best for them.

Do they have a place available? If they do and you take it you may never want to leave if it's that good and then you'll have to commit to many years of scrimping.

I've been told places shuffle massively between now and September, (hope so as we have our own issues?) so hopefully you'll get something better soon.

Otherwise can you keep him home until you have a preferred spot or he's 5? Good luck! It's a sucky system.

Go private.

Or consider home schooling.

Hi OP.

A cautionary tale:

I have just moved my DS (also a PFB ) from a private school to a fantastic state primary school. He's in Y3 and has spent 3 years at the private school waiting for a place at a state school.

He went to the private school because we stupidly moved house towards the end of his Reception year and there were no places available in YR in our new town.

When we received the offer for the state school place we had 10 days to take up the offer. The private school required one term's notice. Therefore we are paying a term's fees for nothing .... We agreed to those terms and I'm not complaining, but it is something you need to consider.

I don't regret any of it but 3 years is a long, expensive time to wait for a school place!

YANBU - but think it this a through fully. Do you have / plan to have any other children? - could you afford to do the same for them if they didn't get into a decent state school? (this is what we're doing with our DD who is in YR - we will move her for Y3 as DS' school is a junior school and siblings of existing pupils are pretty much guaranteed to get in). We really hadn't expected to have to wait so long for a school place for DS!

"think it this a through fully"

Sorry. My own private education obviously wasn't very thorough .... hope you understand what I intended to say!

Quick replies, thanks.

I wouldn't get a refund and would have to give a terms notice. This is what is setting me to thinking that it might be better for him to attend through infant years and then apply for state junior school at Yr 3. So we'd commit to three years of fees.

We have quite a lot of equity in the house and we're not talking about more than £15k on top of the mortgage so that should be okay.

Prep does have a space available, but for how long? I know that waiting lists can juggle but it's likely we're at least 8th on the list for the catchment school and probably further down for the others.

It does seem that where my pfb is concerned I'm willing to set aside my dislike of private schools smile]

Umm are you sure the Prep school will be less religious than the C of E one?

I would ask the prep school how many spaces they currently have, and if they operate a waiting list.

Ask them if you can pay a deposit (ours charges £250 which is refundable at the end of the child's first term). At least this way you will be guaranteed a place at a school which is acceptable to you and you never know, your DS might move much higher up the state school waiting list before September anyway. I know that this means possibly writing off £250 if you get a state school place but if you can afford it it's a relatively small price to pay .... Number 8 seems quite high to me (DD is currently number 25 on the waiting list and that's with a sibling already attending the school!).

I was just going to say what mummytime did - most private schools are Christian, at least on paper, and my DD's current private primary does more overtly religious stuff (proper hymns in assembly, writing prayers in RE classes) than her previous CofE primary did.

I am an atheist, and DD is also leaning in that direction, but the school does say it welcomes those of 'all faiths and none', and there really is no such thing as a non-religious school anywhere near here.

I gather that in the past when DD has been asked to write prayers she explains she doesn't believe in God and addresses the prayer to something else (think it might have been the flying spaghetti monster last time, after her older brother was explaining that one to her...).

So by all means go for the private school if you are most worried about academic standards, but you probably won't avoid religion that way.

Yes that is a very good point re. how religious the prep school is ...

I was also going to a voice a concern about the level of religion in the private school.

AgentSmith - I can?t home school, I work full time and I?m as thick as two short planks!

DS is 5 within the autumn term so the latest he can start school is January 2013 and he?s already so keen to go to school that I?d prefer him to start in September .

MrsMcEnroe - crossed posts with you. I can fully see that it may take three years to get a state school place so I?m budgeting for this. I?m also prepared to consider right up to yr 6 at the prep if nothing awful happens, like job loss or DP or I dying (me being cheerful). No more children for us either. Yes, they need £250 deposit which is fine. I thought 8th would be low on a waiting list ? I will wait a few more weeks, particularly as we?re appealing but I can?t stop thinking about what to do.

exexpat - Good point about the religion at the prep school. They have daily assembly and ?give thanks? but are not aligned with a particular religion, more just a general spirituality and Judaeo-Christian moral code.

mummytime makes a good point

Of course you are not being unreasonable. Nobody can be accused of being unreasonable if they are not harming anyone else and just doing what is best for their child.

You do realise that state education in the UK is not secular, even in non faith schools.

" Updated:
26 April 2012

All maintained schools in England must provide a daily act of collective worship. This must reflect the traditions of this country which are, in the main, broadly Christian."

Honestly, I'd send him to the CofE school, it will only be slightly more religious than a normal state school. All state schools have to have an act of worship and teach RE. Many private schools have church services, the one I worked at had its own chapel.

If its a truly awful school you can put his name on the waiting lists at other local schools. You may be lucky and in Y3 the class numbers rules relax.

And remember OFSTED have their own agenda, go and read some of the threads in education before believing all they write.

Don't forget not only will you not get a refund but you will have to give a terms notice or pay in leu.

I find it amazing that one set of principals can take precedent over another though, that not learning about god is a deal breaker but receiving an unfair educational advantage is just fine if push comes to shove.

Your atheism is clearly stronger than your socialism or you'd be putting your child in the C of E school whilst staying on the waiting list for your preferred schools. Seriously have you considered that as an option? You could supplement it with various extra curricular activities and work on basics with her if you're worried.

Have you considered the extras that come with private? - eg expensive uniform, school trips not being subsidised. Also the fees tend to go up well above inflation each year - not trying to put you off but am trying to make sure you know the whole picture (dd is in private and she's very happy but we are well are of the pitfalls financially over and above basic fees).

Good luck I know its a hard decision

Private education will give your child a wonderful start in life.

Agree that mummytime makes a very good point. This prep school is very relaxed and modern - it is run as a not for profit school by a co-op of parents. There?s no ?old school tie? element.

Itsallgoing - I do realise that all schools have a daily act of communal worship but it doesn't mean that I have to like it! I sign the secular society petitions and regularly write to my MP. I am dogged and persistent if nothing else

outraged - that?s the problem though. I do think that everyone should send their child to state school because if they did the standard of the state schools would improve. Not wishing to quote other threads but the recent long thread on AIBU about state funding for private education and the Low Aspirations thread in education made me think about this all the more.

startail - I am considering it but just reading the school website shows how religious is it ? home page is a beaming Bishop of X surrounded by pupils waving bibles. Every single paragraph seems to talk about visits to this church, and God this, and vicar that. I just don?t think I can, in good [atheist] conscience, send him there if there is the chance that I can afford the prep.

"I find it amazing that one set of principals can take precedent over another though, that not learning about god is a deal breaker but receiving an unfair educational advantage is just fine if push comes to shove" Mosman - I find it amazing too. But I may have to choose between my principles and I'm finding it very difficult. I think the pfb emotional part is what's pushing me to consider prep.

Faintpinkline - yup, these are the things I'm thinking about and having to weigh up. I understand where you are coming from and I'm grateful for your advice

NovackNGood - and there it is, the PFB bit again! Yes, however much I don't want to admit it I think you are probably right.

Well you could send then to CofE school and you can taech your child at home not to pay any notice to their superstitions.