to dread what these kids are going to be like in 10 years time.

[Huntingformandarin]

Yesterday I took my 7yo to London Transport Musuem, country bumpkin visiting the city, so very different environment to our norm.

But I was horrified at the behaviour of the MC toddlers and their parents.

My ds has a large bruise on his arm after one toddler, (2-3 year old), tried to climb onto him shoved him into the steering arm of the underground train my ds was steering at the time. The mother just laughed, and said 'let him show you how to do it he loves this ride', I said 'no it's my ds turn', and the mother said 'he hasn't learnt to wait yet', I advised her that maybe she should be teaching him how to wait. She did nothing to remove her child or repremand or anything.

My ds had a small painting done on his cheek, and another toddler, when he was sat driving a bus, rubbed the paint off his cheek, my ds moved his head away and this toddler's mum said 'he only wants to have a look', I advised he needs to learn to look and not touch. My ds was upset that his face paint was now partly rubbed off.

There were other toddlers running around with very little parental supervision, and this is inside a museum (admittedly a child friendly museum) but still a museum not a playground.

The attitude of the parents I encountered yesterday, makes me feel real dread what this kids are going to be like in 10 years time. AIBU to think that this type of parenting does not help society?

FGS, I'm not sure what I'm feeling about this thread but I do have something to say.

Look, we're all in the same boat - trying to bring our children up decently. But what we forget sometimes is that all children are different and develop at different rates. And that includes learning how to behave properly.

Children can be childish, selfish and egocentric. I really dislike the people who come on here and say their 2.5 year old always behaves properly, never has a tantrum etc. That's what children of that age do and yes of course your job as a parent is to discipline. The word discipline means to teach and in some cases it can take a long time for a particualar child to learn what's acceptable behaviour and what's not.

OP - you only had a snapshot. When the mother said he hasn't learnt to wait yet she was telling the truth! She was stating a fact. She did NOT say that she doesn't care about it or she's not trying to teach him.

Years ago before we had children, dh and I visited friends with 3 young boys, about 7, 5 and 3 at the time. They seemed completely wild, going mad in the house, didn't listen, jumping on the furniture, generally very badly behaved. With my pre-children judgey pants on I thought oh my God, those terrible children, no discipline, no boundaries, just wild. We didn't see them again for some years as they were living abroad but when we next saw them the boys were around 12, 10 and 8. They had grown into such lovely children I was amazed they were the same boys! They were a pleasure to have in our house.

So before you judge other children, please try to remember a couple of things: don't compare them to your children, all children are different. Discipline doesn't happen overnight, it can take a long time. Most young children behave badly at some point, not because they are 'bad' children just that they are naturally impulusive and learning what's right and wrong.

Sorry to seem vague - but what are MC toddlers?

Dance - ignoring such behaviour is hardly a good sign the parents are making that much effort! I think you are being very optimistic in believing all parents make the effort to bring children up decently to!

No feathers ruffled.
I know a parent who sounds a bit like the OP, who was very overly precious about her children, pushing towards the strange side. The post reminded me of her thats all.

Of course i understand supervision, ect but this particular person who i am on about took it to the extreme!

She wouldn't let her children participate in normal social activities, if they ever did go to a birthday party she would take her kids packed lunches to eat (No allergies just not allowed 'party' food), the kids weren't allowed to go anywhere unless she was with them, no telly during the week an hour on weekends, no games. They were allowed to do craft and read books that was it! No fashionable clothing or make-up. The list could go on.

I know these two children, they are now 25 living with their parents and still share a bedroom. as they are not allowed to have one each. They have turned out very, very strange. I feel it is a result of overly-precious parenting.

Im not the kind of mother who leaves her child playing with matches whilst she's lead out snorting crack, but any type of overly precious parenting just makes me think of her, in a funny sort of oh dear kind of way.

Of course children are learning, but when they do something anti-social, we should apologise on their behalf, and take it as an opportunity to guide them. OR we prevent their hitting, pushing, whatever if we can by making sure they aren't tired, hungry or over-excited.

OP YANBU

This isn't about the children, it's about how they are parented

Kate the OP does not sound like your friend, to me

Dancergirl
Children can be childish, selfish and egocentric. I really dislike the people who come on here and say their 2.5 year old always behaves properly, never has a tantrum etc.

I didn't say that. All three of mine have started tantrums very early, before 1, and finished late - well eldest 6 has mainly finished they are no longer daily events.

Tantrums have frequently been pubic and often embarrassing but that has never been an excuse not to deal appropriately with their behavior.

In the case of waiting - I'd have gentle explained to toddler that they had to wait and use distraction and if that failed tried to remove them with out triggering a tantrum. Any hitting and I'd have apologized to others and told my child off and removed them.

If it make you feel better my 2 year old, not far of 3, deliberately tripped over a DC the same age as her in a Supermarket this last week. I didn't ignore it I told her off, apologized to others involved, moved her away and then tried to get her to understand it was unacceptable behavior. I don't know if I succeeded in getting through but I tried and hopefully she'll know next time.

Re: the question - when is it the right time to set boundaries?

Too many parents wait for the school to start doing this, or the school tries to do it and is criticised for stifling their child

Sorry but I just can't get over the MC dig. If someone came on hee and slagged off another societal class of kids or parents it would not be received well and that mc comment just colours the whole of the OP's point. While you may have a point that parents should intervene a little more with toddler behaviour you come across as judgmental and unpleasant.

discipline begins at birth I always wandered why the MW slaps the baby as soon as its born

I'm afraid I'm another one who object to the MC label. How can you tell someone's Middle Class from looking? And why is it important to you?

If your six month old teething baby bites your nipple while feeding, do you just let him carry on because 'that's what babies do?'

No, you let him know that it's not an acceptable thing to do - that's setting boundaries.

It is never too early to teach children to behave well and have consideration for other people.

YANBU op, but not the toddlers' fault, definitely the parents'.

YANBU, unfortunately there are quite a few parents around who either don't know how to be a parent or can't be bothered to be a parent.

When these kids finally go to school/pre-school, they are likely to take up a lot of the teacher's time as they will need to be taught basic discipline and basic manners. Well-behaved kids will learn less as a result as the teacher is so busy with the badly behaved ones. It is all a mess, just because a lot of bad parenting. I still wonder if part of all this is grandparents/wider family not being involved much, resulting in tired parents or parents who simply don't have a clue. Clearly, not all parents are like this, but way too many are like this in my experience.

"Tantrums have frequently been pubic"

"They will be MURDERERS and RAPISTS ans PAEDOPHILES"

Sorry Nancy66, your way off mark, they will be CANNIBALS, fact.

Didn't mean to taint OP by putting MC. Yes I was referring to middle class - what I would class myself as incidentially.

By MC rightly or more likely wrongly I was meaning these were all well to do families, who wouldn't have been seen as stereotypical of kids running wild on the streets, oh no they wouldn't let them run around the streets causing mayhem, they take them to museums, so they can tell the other mothers at playgroup that their child has been to said museum, and understands all about how the underground network was installed, rather than that they left them to run amok.

I previewed that as well .

You knew I what I meant I'm sure.

Fanjo,so a parent who takes their child to a museum is a better person to parent than a parent that does not,thats how ive read your post

are you being serious

LOL!!!!!! toddler asbo time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes of course we should teach and guide them when an inappropriate act occurs, but my point is that the OP just saw a snapshot. It could be that the mother would reprimand her child 9 times out of 10 and this was the 10th time!

Of course I could be wrong and she might not give a stuff.... but you shouldn't make assumptions about people based on one observation without knowing the full story.

"But I was horrified at the behaviour of the MC toddlers and their parents."

Sorry, I'm at a loss, what do you mean by MC? I can only think of MC?

As a mom of 4 Dcs 22, 21. 15 and 13 ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Fab thread

I can only think of middle class I meant!