to dread what these kids are going to be like in 10 years time.

[Huntingformandarin]

Yesterday I took my 7yo to London Transport Musuem, country bumpkin visiting the city, so very different environment to our norm.

But I was horrified at the behaviour of the MC toddlers and their parents.

My ds has a large bruise on his arm after one toddler, (2-3 year old), tried to climb onto him shoved him into the steering arm of the underground train my ds was steering at the time. The mother just laughed, and said 'let him show you how to do it he loves this ride', I said 'no it's my ds turn', and the mother said 'he hasn't learnt to wait yet', I advised her that maybe she should be teaching him how to wait. She did nothing to remove her child or repremand or anything.

My ds had a small painting done on his cheek, and another toddler, when he was sat driving a bus, rubbed the paint off his cheek, my ds moved his head away and this toddler's mum said 'he only wants to have a look', I advised he needs to learn to look and not touch. My ds was upset that his face paint was now partly rubbed off.

There were other toddlers running around with very little parental supervision, and this is inside a museum (admittedly a child friendly museum) but still a museum not a playground.

The attitude of the parents I encountered yesterday, makes me feel real dread what this kids are going to be like in 10 years time. AIBU to think that this type of parenting does not help society?

Very well put Edith thank you.

And yes, it's the parents taking the time to comment to me, that their child is doing x behaviour, which to me makes me think they see the behaviour is not acceptable, but not making any effort to use the opportunity as a learning experience for their child.

E.g. the bruise on the arm situation, removing him off my son's lap, getting him to say sorry, and holding him for the 60seconds whilst it's my son's go.

I fully understand 2-3 year olds don't have the social skills yet, but I would hope the parents are teaching them.

To those who don't do it at 2-3 because they are too young, do you have a set age that you teach social skills?

Maybe Kate was at London transport museum yesterday and has had her feathers ruffled

It takes time for DCs to learn to socialise. They will get it in the end or have no friends. The majority work out by 5/6 years that no one will play with them if they don't share and take turns. I t is a harder lesson for some, and a small minority never get it. It helps if a parent steps in with, 'you have had your turn-now we must let some else have a turn' but they also need time without mother constantly hovering to work it out for themselves. A balance is needed and tha majority will be fine in 10 years time.

london transport musuem was so much nicer before they did it up!

more space and lots of buses/trains to try! wouldn't go back again

You mean they don't have the buses and trains to go on??!

We haven't been for a while, is it just one big soft play now?

At 2-3 they need to parents there with them, I am all for children learning to do these things independently but at 2? Really?

The sort of kids you should really despair for are not those whose parents take them to museums.

yanbu
but why didn't you tell the woman to remove her child?

"i'm sorry but 2-3 years old is very young to expect them to behave sensibly."

You are talking about the children mini - the parents, presumably, are older and should know better !!

Fanjo- i was thinking the same.

One thing that life and having contact with lots of different families, teaches you is that you cannot predict how life will turn out for anyone, or what sort of adult a person is going to be.

It would be different if the thread title was that, 'even toddlers need bounderies', but to use the words, 'dread' and 'horrified' is a strong and shows that the OP really does need to get out of the countryside a bit more.

YANBU - it's not the children, it's the parents.

I would have been horrified if my DC's had behaved like this at that age. I would have tried to stop them before they did it, or at least have hauled them off, apologised profusely to your DS and you and firmly explained to them that they should wait their turn, be kind to others, etc, etc.

There have been occasions when, if a parent doesn't say something/intervene - then I will.
Once I was at a soft play area and one little boy kept terrorising my DD - he only meant to play, but he was being rough and she didn't like it and didn't want to play with him. I gently intervened several times to separate them, looked across at his ineffectual parents, who did nothing, then eventually stopped this little boy, crouched down and spoke to him and told him very clearly that my little girl was not enjoying the game he wanted to play and could he please leave her alone and find someone else to play with. Finally the father loped over and gave me an apologetic grin, so I told him that his son kept on bothering my daughter and could he keep an eye on him.

I don't think the toddlers were doing anything extreme, just frustrating toddler behaviour, but yanbu op to wonder about theirbrogues behaviour when the parents did little to discipline them. I can imagine in ten years time the parents will be arguing with the teachers about their precious misunderstood children who never put a foot wrong

OP do you not socialise much with other DCs? Is your DS not used to new children? Not judging, it's just I am struggling to see anything extraordinary about the behaviour you describe, and most 7 year old would interact with toddlers without a parent's help.

Meh- if ever you were going to see bad behaviour it would have been this weekend. End of winter, just after Easter Hols and it has been raining for weeks. Twitch.

They will be MURDERERS and RAPISTS ans PAEDOPHILES.

D E F I N I T E L Y

At 2-3 years I think you are being slightly unreasonable, though perhaps they weren't as well supervised as they ought to have been. MC = middle class? I'm not sure I agree that this sort of behaviour is class connected. So yabu.

It is when they're continuing this behaviour at 5-6 that I worry.

As someone who works with disengaged young people I think respect for others and understanding appropriate boundaries should start when children are toddlers. It is very hard, if not impossible, to start when they are twelve or so when they think they can do exactly what they want and sod the rest of us. At least with toddlers you have a chance of instilling some sort of structure of appropriate behaviour - and I don't mean being harsh and strict just gently firm and appropriate.

No they won't necessarily be those things, but they will be 12 year olds, who push the toddlers out of their way.

How do you mean interact, he was playing a game that requires him to sit in a seat and look out the window in front of him? IMO he acted how I would like him to act, he rubbed his arm, ignored the annoying brat, and peered around said child to continue to the end of the game, he then squeezed himself out of the seat, the toddler remained in his seat, and my ds, moved on to the next activity rubbing his arm, and commenting to me, on how the parent did nothing.

On the bus, he moved his head away, hence why it was partially not fully rubbed off, and carried on pretending to drive the bus.

A soft play place would be much more appropriate entertainment for a 2 year old rather than a museum.

I disagree with your last statement, Ds is 2.5 and much prefers things like you describe to soft play and so do I

I currently have a 2 nearly 3 year old. I would have intervened and told her that that was not acceptable gently at first and-my DC knows about waiting her turn. If she'd been waiting too long then I'd have tried to take her off to some thing else or distract her. So YANBU there.

However I've known since eldest was a toddler that there are parents who not correct their DC.

I now avoid a MC friend who could never tell her DC off and they run wild - oddly DC in question seem to love me someone who did very reluctantly tell them off when I felt could not ignore behavior. They are doing well in school and nursery though they struggled with following rules for quite a while teachers soon dealt with it - I know as parents complained teachers picked on them or expected to much . Parents constantly complain about their DC behavior themselves and yet can't understand why their DC aren't invite places anymore.

Ok sorry - much more appropriate free play than a museum.

The toddlers and children who were looking at the exhibits, and behaving appropriately are very welcome

Sorry but dd is 2.5 and totally understands about turn taking and waiting in line and not shoving etc. She might not always do the things she knows and needs reminding but she understands when her actions are wrong. It winds me up when parents think their dcs are so precious they are too young to learn good behaviour, is the learning fairy going to fly around their heads at age 5 and they will suddenly get it?

Oh and the science museum is one of her favourite places, ok it's only so she can steal the "ball floating on air" thingh and chuck water around but still

"Softlysoftly
is the learning fairy going to fly around their heads at age 5 and they will suddenly get it?"

My friend seemed to think they'd pick it up by osmosis by hanging out with well behaved DC like mine and that other parents would be fine with this in mean time.

He ignored the annoying brat

You sound lovely

Its been said already but children need boundaries. I would have been wanting to sink into the floor if either of my pair had done anything like the younger child in the OP and would have apologised profusely. One advantage of twins is they have had to share/wait their turn right from the beginning.

Personally, I think I would have also put annoying brat too. I really don't like badly behaved (age appropriate) behaviour.