Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be amused that the more exclusive a school is..

525 replies

seeker · 29/04/2012 10:02

.. by faith, fees, ability, aptitude..whatever- the more diverse a community the school's parents say it is.

OP posts:
silverfrog · 02/05/2012 19:13

in our case, Nice, the families at the state infant school can afford it too - they have their names down for dd2's school from yr3 onwards (when the state school finishes - 3 school system here) and don't want to use the follow on middle school (which is not as 'naice' as the infant school). seriously, 2/3 of the year are down for places at dd2's school. the other 1/3 probably have names down at other prep schools in the area, or maybe don't agree with private schooling. nothing to do with not affording it, believe me -not in this village.

the difference is that we didn't want the faff of moving dd2 about, and so have left her there (from pre-school, which all the other families also used) instead of jumping ship to the state school and then back again.

silverfrog · 02/05/2012 19:14

agree that this woudl be a more unusual situation at secondary, btw.

wordfactory · 02/05/2012 19:20

nice whilst I don't share your politics on education, I can see that you are coming from a place of scrupulous morality and as such I thoroughly respect your views.

diabolo · 02/05/2012 19:28

Word 100% agree.

NiceHamione · 02/05/2012 19:29

Scrupulous morality sounds dull. I will turn down that accolade thanks

wordfactory · 02/05/2012 19:33

nicehamione only scrupulous in respect of educational politics.

For all I know the rest of your life could be a hot bed of serial adultery and Columbian marching powder Grin

happygardening · 02/05/2012 19:37

I am not convinced it matters if our children don't mix with children from diverse economic back grounds. Ethnic backgrounds yes but not economic backgrounds.

happygardening · 02/05/2012 19:37

By mix I mean mix on a day to day basis at school.

diabolo · 02/05/2012 19:52

happy I have no idea why it matters either.

I am from a very poor w/c background. I work with people from very poor backgrounds. DS's gran and Aunties/ Unlcles are poor. Why on earth does it matter whether he goes to school with "poor" people or not?

It is very patronising, I feel, to differentiate people due to how money they do, or don't have..

NiceHamione · 02/05/2012 19:56

As a poor kid from a home where education was not a priority I am glad that I had a chance to see there is another way of living.

TalkinPeace2 · 02/05/2012 20:33

Why does it matter if our children do not mix with other backgrounds
Race : Obvious
Religion : Obvious
Economic : Pretty obvious
Curiosity: @@@@@@@@@@@

I went to nice gels schools in London. I met people from all over the world of all races and creeds. I then went to Uni and met an even wider background.
BUT
What I never met until I started work aged 21 was people who could not give a shit about anything.
People who you showed them Encarta and they had NO curiosity to click on the links.
People who were happy in their little narrow world.
People whose aspirations did not involve them having to work hard (footballer / celebrity/ inherit dad's cushy port job))
People who slurred their speech unintelligibly for non medical reasons

Our politicians are like I was - they just do not "get" a large part of the population - they have no experience of the diversity of the population.

At least in a comp, my DCs know about those people and choose to ignore them, but at least they know they exist
(think of the evacuation order from New Orleans and the White House staff not "getting" that people did not have cars or places to go)

If your kids are at an exclusive school, well done to you and them.
BUT please make sure that they realise that the rest of the world is rather different and that until they understand that they will not be long term commercial successes in whatever their chosen field.

Gunznroses · 02/05/2012 20:36

Seeker! Your post of 10:57am is the most ignorant post i've ever seen on MN.
So all your ranting on MN about diversity, this is what it boils down to. You really don't have fucking clue!

Ds started off at the local state school, he was one of only 3 black children in the entire school, the majority were 85% Italian the rest white english, very economically diverse. it was painfully obvious not just to me but also my then 4yr ds that we were different, several children on separate occassions wanted to know why he was "brown", on many occasions got the Hmm look, some children assumed ds and the two other black kids in the school were siblings ? Confused we took it all in our stride, the children were obviously just curious, but this made my 4 yr rather upset and confused and definitely "different", the parents just generally didnt know what to say to us after the initial polite "hello".

The next local school was 90% white, again ds2 was one of only 6 black kids. Similar story, not at all ethnically diverse, the majority Seemed middle class, nice jobs, the number of 4 by 4's each morning were mind boggling.

Ds received a few invites and i always made sure he attended but whenever we extended an invite back, we always got the Hmm look followed by a decline, upon speaking to the other black parents at both schools they were in exactly the same boat as us.

I am degree educated and dh has a masters from Harvard, NOBODY gave a rats arse wether we were MIDDLE class, your idea that a middle class black person and middle class white would have more in common than someone of their own ethnicity is just mind boggling!

Ds1 and 2 have since moved to a prep Wink oh yes its lovely Seeker! They've got black, yellow, white, all the colours under the sun there, no one bats an eyelid when you walk into a room, no silly questions ds1 was suprised to meet kids from our home country Grin he's got invites comming out of his ears from all races, ive made friends with the white mums, black mums, and two mums from singapore.

I'm sure the local state schools were more economically diverse but to us the Prep school represents the type of diversity most important to us. The children are learning a lot about other cultures, religions and customs from through direct contact with other children, something that was completely lacking in the two local state schools, they may have been economically diverse, but who cares ? (obviously you do) And why on earth would that be important to me ? i couldnt care less wether you were middle, upper or lower so long as there were some people who looked like me, my dc finally feel like they belong.

Someone not too long ago was spouting rubbish about how private school kids spend their holidays down at granpa's country home blabla, my dc dont have any granpa with a house a house in the country, they have family and friends outside. Of school from the various economic backgrounds, they have 3 cousins in an inner london council flat, an aunt in a modest terraced 3 bed, and an uncle in a 2 bed flat in dagenham. They visit them all the time and spend lots of time at these places, they also travel broad a lot to visit grandparents who live a very humble lifestyle, where there is no running water and no electricity.

My dc certainly know how to talk to people from all walks of life and understand how many live and that they are priviledged, so i dont need to hunt for economic diversity at school.

Please let me know the area where middle classness crosses all racial barriers in this country, if that were the case class discrimination not "racial discrimination" will be making the headlines for years.

You obviously have a huge axe to grind with anybody that uses private education, as you continuosly lump everyone in one box and bang on about economic diversity, buying advantage, i'll bloody well buy advantage so long as i can aford it, i've suffered enough to get where i am should my children not enjoy the fruits of my labour ? How ignorant you are.

diabolo · 02/05/2012 20:42

Gunz I wish there was an "applause" emoticon.

EdlessAllenPoe · 02/05/2012 21:00

well, i think this is just the way life is.

in some areas, if you are a churchgoer, you can wurzel your child into a better school
in others, if your child can pass 11+ you can get a better school
in many areas, if you have more money and therefore more choice about which catchment you live in, you can get your kid into a better school
if you have more money also, you can send them to a private school and thus get them to a better school.

I don't fall into any of these brackets (not grammar area, even if both DDs were to ace 11+..bit early to tell!). My daughter goes to a good solid primary that was my second choice. i was of the opinion the first choice was better, but i can't afford to live in the catchment (not in a house i'd want to live in!) so tough titty to me.

you can feel a bit crap and guilty as a parent when you realise that better things are out there if you could only have the means to get them for your kids...but it's not worth it. You have to do the best with what you can get (and stubbornly pushing the entrance system has served many people i know) - feeling jealous and resentful of those that do have the means to access those better schools is never going to make your situation better.

Noqontrol · 02/05/2012 21:03

I do too. Bloody good post gunznroses.

diabolo · 02/05/2012 21:11

But Edless lots of people are happy with what they can get. If I was Catholic I could get 81% A*-C 5 GCSE's +

However, my catchment state secondary = barely 60% A*-C 5 GCSE's. (barely above the national average).

The OP thinks I should be happy with this, whereas even the non-selective independent local option offers 90%+.

Why, why why why why, should I not pay for the better (and it is better) school for my DC if I can afford it?

Not just results wise, but it offers much wider diversity Smile , sport, and many other extras.

There just won't be many economically disadvantaged pupils there. But as I am from that background, and deal with that on a day-to-day basis and all the associated problems that produces these days ..... how does that make me evil and without a social conscience (as she says on another thread)?

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 02/05/2012 21:44

For me, and what I thought the point of the thread was, it's : don't go round smugly congratulating yourself on now diverse a school is just only on the basis of the fact there are some non white children at it. All diversity is good, and ethnic diversity doesn't equal overall diversity.
Diabolo says
It is very patronising, I feel, to differentiate people due to how money they do, or don't have..

But isn't that what private schools do?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 02/05/2012 22:56

Gunz great post

seeker · 02/05/2012 23:11

Guns roses. I am glad you've found the right school for your son. I doubt if there's anything I could say that would convince you that I'm not ignorant and probably racist, so I don't think I'll say anything else.

wordfactory, no, no plan B. but I don't see why he wouldn't be happy and do well- and if he isn't, I'll do what most people do, and work with the school to improve things for him.

"But the uncool students of today will be the scientists, inventors, writers and artists of tomorrow. The dreamers. The ones with passion."

And are you saying there are none of them in the comprehensive system?

OP posts:
happygardening · 02/05/2012 23:11

Ok TOSN your right independent schools differentiate people by money if you?ve got money you have the choice to pay everyone knows that and although many offer bursaries so there will be some less well off or even poor children at the school obviously they can't offer them to all. Why do you and others keep banging on about it?
Marvellous post Gunz

NiceHamione · 02/05/2012 23:15

But seeker if you are saying that there are scientists, inventors and artists in the comps why not help maintain comps in your area.

seeker · 02/05/2012 23:20

Because there aren't any.

OP posts:
gelatinous · 02/05/2012 23:27

so you keep saying, but as it's completely akin to the low end proper comps as you call them, what's the difference?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 02/05/2012 23:32

Seeker I don't think anyone has suggested you are racist. I think people are just frustrated that you are playing down the effect of the lack of ethnic diversity on some of our children because you are so focussed on economic diversity. You are invalidating other people's experiences because they don't fit in with your knowledge and experience of the world.

NiceHamione · 02/05/2012 23:32

But there are not comps because parents are opting out. I could say they are opting out because they think their children should only mix with clever children . Is this so dissimilar to sink schools in inner cities beings created because middle class parents flee to the independent sector? I am sure you think they are wrong to do so because it suggests they do not want their children to go to school with poor/ working class children

I believe in comprehensives and am trying to help make my local school as close as possible to a comprehensive by sending my son there and they will have my daughter next year. Once a few parents started doing it others followed suit.

Swipe left for the next trending thread