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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that the companies who own Internet forums...

73 replies

MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 11:40

should sift out the trolls and not leave offensive remarks on their site.
I have just been looking on You Tube and a lot of comments are vile.
Why aren't they deleted? Is it all in the name of 'free speech'? :(

OP posts:
bettybat · 28/04/2012 11:46

There is a line between free speech, and inciting hate or abuse. This is the massive caveat for my next paragraph.

But the double edged sword of the gift of FOS is that we must accept other people with unsavory views also have the right to express them. I would rather have the ability to express myself and live with that downside than be repressed, as in some other countries.

Original poster
MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 11:54

The thing is, people can be like sheep.
For example: A person posts something insulting on a forum.
Free speech one might say. But this single comment gives a green light to others who follow with their own sock comments and before you know it there are a whole string of insults, sick jokes etc.
My point is that one single 'free speech' comment can incite hate and abuse very quickly due to 'sheep mentality'

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Original poster
MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 11:55

Sick not sock!

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Tee2072 · 28/04/2012 11:57

What betty said. And if others are influenced and given the 'green light' to also say vile things, that is also their right.

You can't limit the bad without limiting the good. I may hate what someone says but I will fight with my last breath to give them the right to say it.

bettybat · 28/04/2012 12:00

I don't disagree with that at all, and find an awful lot of so-called jokes really offensive, and I hate a lot of what gets posted - god, newspaper comments are just awful sometimes and read them and think - how can you say that??

But if we got to a place where those kinds of things are banned...I guess just, as what point do you draw the line? How and who decides what is OK and what is not? It's not a foregone conclusion but would we potentially end up in a situation where we are heavily policed into only saying nice things? No opportunity to challenge or disagree?

That frightens me more than I dislike some of the vile people in this world, and the kind of people posting that kind of content truly are nasty, bullying people. But I am more worried about moderation taken to the nth degree.

Original poster
MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 12:02

Tee this is where I disagree! Free speech for good harms nobody.
Free speech for bad harms many.

OP posts:
Tee2072 · 28/04/2012 12:04

Any censorship at all harms everyone.

Just ask the citizens of Europe, especially the Jews, Gypsies and Homosexuals, during the 1930s and 40s.

Oh wait, you can't....

Original poster
MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 12:04

Betty: How and who decides what is OK and what is not?
that is the problem. Morally corrupt people being the ones who say yes or no.
Agree also, newspaper headlines can be vile.

OP posts:
minimisschief · 28/04/2012 12:06

as a moderator once good luck with that. Even one really determined asshole can take up hours of your time and circumvents any effort of removing them from the forum.

it is simply not possible to get rid of them

SnakePlisskensMum · 28/04/2012 12:07

Who decided what is 'good' and 'bad' though ? I also wonder where some people. Get their vile ideas from but we all have different tolerances of what they may be.

Original poster
MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 12:07

Tee they were overpowered and silenced. Do you think that their persecutors should have been able to spread their opinions throughout Europe? And act on them?

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bettybat · 28/04/2012 12:09

But who are you to decide what is "good" free speech? That's the rub!

Someone posts a pic of their same sex partner, saying how much they love them, how hot they are etc...All good, just two people in love.

I may completely, with every fibre of my being, disagree with someone who thinks same sex relationships are just plain wrong. Spiritually, to the very core of their belief system, they think it's wrong. From their perspective, if they feel extremely strongly about it and - god so weird but - find it upsetting to hear/see people talking about their same sex partner in a lovely, gooey way, that's not "good" free speech for them. They find it offensive and wrong and that people are saying things that shouldn't be said.

Tee2072 · 28/04/2012 12:09

Their persecutors did spread their opinions through Europe and since they silenced the ones they didn't agree with, millions died.

So who decides? Hitler? Cameron? Obama? Hussain? Castro?

Which one is right and which one is wrong?

bettybat · 28/04/2012 12:13

MrsKittyFane but that's the whole point. At what point does the line keep creeping and creeping and blurring until once again, we are in a situation like that again?

Only this time we are told it's to wipe out nasty comments and horrible thoughts. In doing so, no one can disagree or express their true opinions, they get afraid to say what they really think, or challenge the status quo...

That is an extremely worrying place to be. Fascism takes hold in a society where we give up tolerance, acceptance of the good and bad, and freedom on the promise of security.

Original poster
MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 12:13

Tee exactly. Who decides? The persecutors/ people posting vile thoughts on the Internet think that their opinion is correct.
I won't defend them in any way.

OP posts:
Tee2072 · 28/04/2012 12:15

I don't defend what they say. They are vile. But if you stop them from saying it, they can stop you from countering it.

How can you not see that? How can anyone not see that?

Original poster
MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 12:16

Betty I find the acceptance of good and bad difficult.

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AutumnSummers · 28/04/2012 12:16

Can you link me to the youtube video you are talking about please?

AutumnSummers · 28/04/2012 12:17

And I agree with Tee

Original poster
MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 12:19

Autumn No. Too many to mention. But I'll give you a recent example. Search for Claire Squires on You tube.

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bettybat · 28/04/2012 12:20

I do because I am grateful for freedom of speech and expression, the right to protest, the right to state my opinion.

The alternative is intolerable. Look at N. Korea - citizens coached to say complimentary things of their government when interviewed in the street by Western news agencies.

It's that that makes it easier to accept someone's right to have their opinion, their right to express it, and my right to challenge or ignore it.

Empusa · 28/04/2012 12:20

"I have just been looking on You Tube and a lot of comments are vile.
Why aren't they deleted?"

Have you reported them? I don't know YouTube's policy on deleting offensive content, but I know that with a site of that size it's a huge task to delete all the offensive comments - especially if you haven't been told they are there.

fedupofnamechanging · 28/04/2012 12:21

Kitty, you can't say that good free speech is okay and bad free speech isn't. You do know what free speech means?

Morloth · 28/04/2012 12:21

Because your right to say what you want isn't any more important that someone else's.

This is important.

Original poster
MrsKittyFane · 28/04/2012 12:22

Tee: I don't defend what they say. They are vile. But if you stop them from saying it, they can stop you from countering it.
Yes I can see that. But their defence will always be 'I am right in my opinion and you are wrong'

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