to think stay at home mothers and fathers are utterly disrespected and unappreciated by society in general?

[peanutbutter38]

After reading several threads on Mumsnet recently, I've come to the conclusion that stay at home Mums and Dads are regarded with a fairly substantial dose of disdain. Most MN threads which involve problems a sahm is having, involve advice along the lines of 'you should work when the children get to school' (school holidays/before/after care for 3 kids anyone?), or 'your husband must be very worried at being the sole breadwinner' and 'I'd go insane being at home with my kids 7 days a week' and gems such as 'my kids are better off in daycare.' The overall implication is that any woman, or man, choosing to be a stay at home parent is a brainless numpty who has no life, no ambition and is doing the Wrong Thing. And then we've gout our lovely Deputy PM saying we need to get away from the sepia tinted 1950's model. wtaf? I wonder how many childminders and nursery workers are aware their employers think that childcare is dull as fuck and only for uneducated individuals with no ambitions?

Vessel - it's not bizzare at all.

Im not commenting on her childcare choice I am commenting on the whining.

I agree - if I said "I don't care what you do with your children" and then commented on her choice that would be bizarre, but I didn't do that. I would make the same commet if she was a WOHM. I am not commenting on the childcare choice, which is of no interest to me I am commenting on the whining which is an annoyance. Two different things.

I do agree with some of the points you make OP as I have seen a fair few threads turn into SAHM v working mums but on the whole most (not all) people in RL & MN are fine with whatever decisions you make. Those that aren't often have issues in their own lives and are trying to avoid them! I just believe everyone should do what's right for themselves and their families, and respect the choice of others as well as reserve judgement.

I do think that our society often undervalues the importance of all types of parents, many tabloid commentators/media blame parents for the young rioters, obese children, unhappy children, materialistic children, feral children, lonely children, bored child, over pushed children and educationally failing children yet also encourages this culture of consumption which requires parents to work more and spend less time with kids - as parents working or not we can't win!

Agree with AnnoyingOrange.

There are so many factors:-

Single parent or with partner?
Support network or not?
Child care provision?
Salaries
career choice/maternity leave/ paternity leave
household running costs etc. etc.

It is impossible to argue that one is better than the other. What is right for one family is wrong for another.

We all just do the best we can in the circumstances we are in.

Meh I'm with cat - just do not care what anyone else does as long as they're not abusing their kids.

Fucked me off royally when our local mumsgroup (all well off, all SAHM's) took umbrage at my CHOICE to return to work - and told me I was 'abusing' my DS 'not least because you'll have to stop BF!!' - I didn't stop BF, DH has DS while I work and I have DS when he works nights. Works for us ...

But WHY does every parenting choice have to be such a battle? Are we not all doing the best we can for our DC and our families? There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way FGS!!!

I think it depends what the topic is IYSWIM
I've seen threads line the op has quoted, and also threads where WOHP are seen as the devil incarnate!

I don't think either SAHP or WOHP should expect to be appreciated by anyone other than their families tbh, as long as you are happy with your own decision there's no need to justify it, either on here on in RL

Society doesn't need to appreciate SAHMs. If you are looking for validation of your choices, perhaps you should re-evaluate if you've made the right choices for yourself.

Have you noticed that it's nearly always women who get the brunt of criticism. When my dcs were born, my DH took the paternity leave and I remember friends and relatives all united in praise along the lines of 'wow, you're such a hands on dad'. During my maternity leave, no one said that to me!! Am pretty sure I wasn't less hands on!

what does annoy me massively is posters who say they've never noticed this sort of thing on Mumsnet.
It.Happens.All.The.Time.

Horrible, some people are idiots and I hate to think what they would do with those mums who choose not to BF, burnt at stake perhaps?

Well, it happens when Xenia posts...

It can get heated in both directions.

The fact that you can't see that does suggest there are some issues for you that go beyond a few MN threads.

I think there's eqal amounts of disrespect on both sides, lots of SAHPs having a go at working mums too.

overall I don't think society has any reason to specially respect SAHPs then it should be their own individual families and they are certainly no more demanding of respect than anyone else working hard.

and...on Mumsnet it's very rare for someone to start a thread moaning about SAHPs, usually criticism starts flowing on threads started to tell working parents ot to work or not to use childcare. Probably people then get negative about SAHPs because they feel the need to defend themselves when attacked this way.

what does annoy me massively is posters who say they've never noticed this sort of thing on Mumsnet.
It.Happens.All.The.Time.

As does the WOHM bashing. It's just as ingenuous to say that you're unaware of that as it is for anyone else to say that they're unaware of the SAHM bashing.

I think both choices are perfectly valid but neither WOHMs nor SAHMs should be queuing up to collect their medals from "society". It's an individual choice made in the interests of each family.

"I think both choices are perfectly valid but neither WOHMs nor SAHMs should be queuing up to collect their medals from "society". It's an individual choice made in the interests of each family."

I like that! It is us who choose to have children, after all.

trying - one of the mums had not not BF because of medication. Life saving medication. They never ceased to critique or undermine her, to her face and behind her back.

I don't see them anymore bar the other non-BF mum who's lovely - I'm too busy working - and they are unbelievable judegmental about every single thing.

Why do people invest so much time worrying about other People's choices? If you're secure in your choices then what does it matter what others are doing or how they feel about your choice?

I've got to say that baby and toddler groups are not the best places to meet like minded people or to form an opinion of what sah mums think. They seem to attract some very odd people at times.

When you think about it, the only thing you have in common with people at a baby group is the fact that you had a child at around the same time. I found these hellish and gave them a wide birth. Not all sahm bf, either, although you could easily get the impression that we do, by the lentil weavery yet strangely fascist types one can encounter at baby groups!

The only person I've seen have a very hard time about being a SAHP is my friend who is a SAHD. At baby groups he is either ignored or patronised by the others (all women) and for weeks he had to put up with mums bringing in jobs ads for him as though he was was only a SAHD because he wasn't capable of finding a job. He constantly has to justify his choice.

No I figured that most people stay reasonably sane post birth - this group of 6 were hellish :) Generally 99% of parents I've met are from the 'Do whatever you want but don't judge my choices if they differ' school of parenting.

I probably am projecting yes, because I do feel embarrassed when I have to justify my position

That's a very tell tale statement there OP.

Firstly, you don't have to justify your position to anyone

Secondly, if you feel embarrassed then I really think you're not happy at all with your own choices.

I think that's not quite true Worra. If lots of other people appear to think that what you chose to do, isn't worthwhile, then it's easy to become doubtful of your own decision making.

I don't think it's about needing appreciation from society - we all do what suits us at any given time, but no one wants to be looked down on or viewed negatively because of how they have chosen to live, be they sahm or wohm.

I'm with Worrs on this thread.

Do what suits you and yours. I couldn't give a monkey's left bollock what society thinks of me - we're happy and that is all.

I suppose that would depend on the person and their personality karma

The whole country could think what I do isn't worthwhile but because I absolutely know it is, it wouldn't make me doubt it in the slightest.

OP - I loved toddler groups. I was able to go to a different one every day when my children were pre-schoolers, all run by local churches. Having children the same age is the one thing you have in common with everyone. With some people, it's the only thing you have in common with them, but somewhere in that church hall will be someone who you'll get on with very well.

I find the whole debate fascinating.

I mean people defending their choices in such a passionate way.

Whilst most of us scratch our head and go 'what choice?'

And just get on with it.

FWIW in response to a PP going to work IS a bit of a break sometimes.
I have three (out of five) DCs living at home. Two in pt nursery and one in a special needs primary. OH is home all day and has a significant disability.

I love my home and adore my family but its not always easy.

Incidentally I love toddler groups too. I go four times a week, to different ones, and the vast majority of the people at them are really lovely. I look forward to them :)