To tell my stepson not to marry this woman?

[WhatTheCatDraggedIn]

I will name change after this as it totally gives me away to anyone who knows me.

My stepson is lovely. He is engaged to a girl who is also lovely, they are well suited etc. BUT...

She is an alcoholic.

She is receiving treatment, but there are frequent lapses. She steals alcohol, lies about it and doesn't apologise when she's caught out (she avoids us all for days / weeks after an incident because she says she can't face us).

Then she's OK for a while and then it happens again.

She has put herself and others in physical danger. She is breaking my heart.

On the one hand she is pretty much family and we should stick by her.

But today, after a pretty horrible weekend (DSS was away) with her I just want to cut her out of my life.

DSS is coming over at 4.30 pm today to find out what happened at the weekend. I want to tell him to break it off with her. AIBU?

I agree about al-anon. He needs to attend weekly meetings and understand what long term life will be like living with and married to an alcoholic. From people in that situation. He also needs to understand how much influence he can really exert over her illness. Not very much, sadly.

Lulumama - she is seeing a therapist, I don't know the details but she has only had 2 sessions with this one.

It took her 1 year to get the GP to refer her - the GP didn't believe that she had a problem because she could go for months without having a drink, even though she was thinking about it all the time.

Once she was referred for therapy it took 6 months to get an appointment, and she didn't feel that the person she saw was helping, so she found another one, this one is really good apparently but she's only had 2 sessions.

She came over here tonight to talk to us, left again after an hour. It's the first time she's tried to explain how she feels and the first time she's really said that she wants to stop drinking and wants to beat this thing.

DSS has just left. He doesn't know what to do, it's such a big step to postpone the wedding because it's making a public announcement of her problem, it just wouldn't be plausible to make up an excuse.

She can't keep drinking a secret - it affects her so badly it's obvious to everyone the minute she has had a drink.

Al-anon is a good idea, I will tell DSS to look them up. He wants to think he can help her and change her and that they will live happily ever after. He loves her but he is furious with her

Al-anon is a great idea.

My cousin, then in her 30s, was engaged to a man many years ago. She's very quiet and this was her first long-term relationship. Her family -including me- were not crazy about him at all but she thought the sun shone out of him. To cut a long story short, he admitted to her (after much grinding and gnashing of teeth) that he had a problem with gambling. He made every promise of change under the sun and went to Gamblers Anonymous and she went to Gam-Anon (and I went with her). Listening to all those other women talking about the constant relapses and broken promises made her realise that she couldn't face a lifetime of lies and broken promises and she broke off the engagement 4 months before they were to get married. She was utterly heartbroken and worried about what would happen to him for a long time after.

She's now happily married to a lovely man who deserves her loveliness and they have a beautiful surprise baby born when she was 44.

It's too hard for your DSS to see the wood for the trees now. He needs to hear the stories of others, that he'll never be able to 'save' her and exactly what life he's facing if he continues with this girl.

They're not yet married, he has to look out for himself first.

Happy - that's what I wish would happen now - I want the fairy tale ending for him . We have supported him to help her for over 2 years now and I am so angry on his behalf at the sh*t she's put him through.

I think that he will probably give her more time with this therapist, but how do you ever know that an alcoholic is 'cured'?

You can't 'tell' him to break it off. Tell him the truth about the weekend and ask him what he hopes for his future.It must be awful to watch as you clearly care about him but it his decision. Feel for the girl as well. Sorry to hear about this - its a difficult one but ultimatley he needs to decide.

That's the million dollar question, Cat, and I suppose for your DSS he needs to find his 'line in the sand' - the point at which he'll walk away. Maybe he should be talking to someone too? Someone objective?

Al-anon has a meeting on Friday evening. I'm going to go, even if he doesn't feel like he wants to yet.

I've just emailed the organiser of the weekend we were at together to apologise.

DSS said tonight "she's ruined every happy occasion for me in the last five years because she's been drunk" - friends weddings, exam results, etc. He was in London this weekend, raised £30k for charity, he should be on a high and instead he's had to deal with this.

The more I think about it the more I want him to break it off, but you are right TrollopDollop it is his decision. I will bite my tongue.

Bloody booze causes so much misery!

IMO you never know that an alcoholic is 'cured'. However, people have very healthy recoveries and can go on to do incredible things. Recovery can be a wonderful thing. If I were looking at a relationship with a person in recovery, I would want to see at least a year dry, no sexual relationships, working on recovery, focused on recovery, serious about recovery. Al-Anon will hopefully give you some insights into this stuff. The issue for your DSS may be that to really sort herself out, she may need to not be in a relationship at all for a while. Certainly, if he has been with her for this long, the relationship may be part of the issue.

He sounds like such an honourable man, standing by her and trying to make it work. Your DSS can't help, though, and he needs to accept that he cannot fix this for her. Nothing he says or does can stop her drinking. Postponing the wedding is surely better than watching her spiral on the wedding day. That she'd somehow be able to avoid the temptation to drink alcohol that day is unlikely. I'm afraid that it would become blindingly obvious to everyone there that she has a real problem. If he's saying she's ruined every happy occasion for him in the last 5 years, ask him how he'd feel about his own wedding day being one of those events. It sounds as though she needs much more support than she is getting. Is a change of GP likely to help? Could you and your DSS go to her GP and tell him/her everything so that it is obvious how bad things are?

Thanks MrsTerryPratchett and NunTheWiser.

I think we are all going to try to find someone who can help us.

DSS has definitely realised he needs some support and we are going to try to find someone to help him. He's not keen on Al-anon because of the religious element but he's willing to give it a try.

It's hard to find a GP here (rural area) who will take them seriously. She has gone 6 months without a drink, she has a job, she's a high achiever, she is fit (takes part in sport at competition level). Then she drinks 2 bottles of wine in 30 minutes at 11 am in the morning .

But the new therapist is reported to be good so we will give that a chance for a while.

Your DSS can't help, though, and he needs to accept that he cannot fix this for her. Nothing he says or does can stop her drinking.

This is the hardest part at the moment .

Would your stepsons fiancée be willing to go to AA? Unless she is willi g to address her alcohol problems then there is little that your dss can do. Alanon is a good idea for some support for you and him but it won't address the problem of her drinking. As other posters have suggested the only one who can do anything about that is her. As long as he stays with her despite her drinking she has little motivation to do anything about it. Sadly many people don't get into recovery until they have lost everything dear to them and hit their rock bottom - whilst the fiancé etc remains a performing alcoholic can keep kidding themselves that things are ok.

If she is an alcoholic then she can't control her drinking and neither can your dss. If she isn't willing to abstain completely then incidents like the weekend will keep happening, although I doubt that how it turned out was her plan at the beginning of the weekend... I suspect the wedding day would sadly go the same way despite everyone's best intentions.

The bottom line is that she needs to seek help, for herself, not to save the relationship but because she wants to. If she's not at that point then there is very little you or he can do. You are just as powerless over her drinking as she is.

(I write this as an alcoholic in recovery in aa who has not had a drink for a while now)

Your poor dss and you , its heartbreaking watching someone you love battle with an addiction. I would definately suggest postponing the wedding , nobody needs to know the true reason , there are a million plausible explanations that you could give .
She needs to do this for herself , not because she feels she should for other people , but because she recognises that it is the best thing for her and that she will be alot happier as a result . Two sessions with a therapist is a drop in the ocean when it comes to counselling , i think she needs to commit to at least six months and see how she is feeling after that , it will not be a quick fix .
I wish you all the best of luck .

For what its worth , my friend attended al-anon sessions as a result of her husbands alcoholism , she said it was very helpful and didnt feel there was any religious element to it . She found it useful to say things about her DH to people who understood , without feeling disloyal .

Hi Enidcolesaw and congratulations on your recovery, I wish you every success.

She has been to AA but felt it wasn't for her. I don't know why and it might be she was in denial / not committed to recovery, so maybe she needs to go back? I think she felt out of place - young, female, sober the majority of the time.

She doesn't cause the type of chaos that you think about when you picture an alcoholic (violence, abuse). But she is hurting us.

I suspect she has been drink-driving. I know she has cooked while drunk, messed about with a log fire and gotton drunk while babysitting so it's probably more luck than anything else that she hasn't hurt herself or someone else.

frumpet thanks for the insight into Al-anon, I find some of their marketing a bit off putting but we need to give it a chance.

whatthecat.....the thing is, how many times has she been drunk that you DONT know about? She may say she's been sober for 6 months, but do you really know - alcoholics are very careful about hiding their booze, lying, denying to themselves and others that there is a problem....

She could have a half jack of vodka in her office drawer and you wouldnt know. She could drink every lunchtime and then come home relatively sober.

I can tell you, from being married to a functional alcoholic, its no picnic. The lies, the deceit, the anxiety that inevitably one day they will get pissed and do something really foolish. :'( I speak from experience. He needs to accept, here and now, the creed of Al-anon: I did not cause this, I cannot control it, I cannot cure it.

I strongly recommend Al-anon, if he can stomach the teensy bit of religion. There is also an online Alanon, which is like a chat room, they have general chat and specific "meetings" at a variety of times. He could sign in and watch a couple of times, and when he's ready, he could share his own story. AT least then it is not YOU telling him stuff, its complete strangers who have been there, done that.

also refer him to alanon uk questionnaire

al-anon online

The sad part is, that whereas your dss is in a relationship with a woman (albeit a shadow of a woman, who is hurting him and his family), she on the other hand is in a relationship with drink.

I see where you are coming from.

To be honest, I think you should let him know that you love him very much, and you will totally understand that might not feel that he can continue supporting and helping her, and that you will stand by him if he breaks up with her. That he does not have to help her, if he feels her alcoholism is beyond him. That it is only human to throw in the towel and say "I have tried, but I can try no more".

Whatever you do, dont make him feel that he has to stand by her. He does not.

I have read so many threads here where spouses of alcoholics, are told that they can only help their partner by letting them free fall and asking them to leave and get sorted, rather than enabling their alcoholism. That ending the relationship is good.

Your dss can absolutely tell her "Sorry love, the wedding is off. I am not going to marry an alcoholic. I want a future without alcohol, without drinking issues, with children and a normal loving wife. I love you, but I dont think that this is going to be you. " And walk away.

You must tell him that this is an option. What if he feels compelled and forced to continue down this road because his own family appear to support her in her alcoholism more than him?

One more thing, she wants to start a family. I would firmly advise your DSS to always wear a condom.
My ex SiL told my BiL she was on the pill. Their eldest is 18 now.

Thanks hattifattner, I didn't know about Al-anon online so that's really useful. I'm so sorry about your husband.

She does lie about how often she drinks, I think, but she cannot hide it from us if we are physically present. Even if she has one glass of wine you can tell instantly that she has been drinking. She cannot metabolise (?) it - her whole demeanor changes.

There are times when she is "too busy" to see us or any of her friends (when DSS is working away we will try to keep an eye on her) or doesn't answer the phone and I suspect that this is when she is drunk or planning to drink.

She has been drunk in a previous job but it was after hours when the management had gone home and left her to lock up.

In her current job if she was found drunk I think she would be sacked instantly and would never get a another job in that profession (involves being responsible for people, I won't go into detail).

Quint - this is what is hard, getting the balance right so that he knows we will support him whatever decision he makes. I don't want him to feel we are either against the marriage or that we expect him to honour the commitment he has made. It feels like such a knife edge and I think last night he really started to think about the possibility he would still be dealing with this in 5 or 10 years time.

You must tell him that this is an option. What if he feels compelled and forced to continue down this road because his own family appear to support her in her alcoholism more than him?

I would hate myself if this is how he felt

One more thing, she wants to start a family. I would firmly advise your DSS to always wear a condom.

We talked last night about things that partners of alcoholics have to do to protect themselves. My former neighbour was an alcoholic. His partner never, ever let him had access to money because he would just spend it on booze.

My DSS went white at the thought of having to control his fiancee to this extent, god knows how he would feel if he couldn't trust her in something so intimate.

my late FIL was an alcoholic. He was only 55 when he died. His liver packed up.
He had not been able to work for the last 20 years, as he could not hold down any job. He drank at home in secret then, while mil was working full time. Of course, he could not drive, therefore not go shopping, or do anything really, aside from drink while she was working. Not only did he drink the family money away, he took out loans too. Mil only found out when he died, and the bank knocked on her door. That was the life insurance and pensions gone, in one swoop, to repay some.

I think he really needs to face up to what he is letting himself in for. He is possibly ruining his own future for the sake of "honoring a commitment". What about her commitment?

Sadly, whatever you advise him to do he may not listen to. Alcoholism is a family disease, it affects everyone around the alcoholic, in particular the partner. They get wrapped up in the denial, enabling, codependency- wanting to save the alcoholic, and it makes them unwell too.

If he chooses to go along to Al Anon, he may be able to get the help he needs to decide to not marry her. Or he may not be ready to get help yet. If you go there and learn what the program is like, and hear other people's experiences, you may be able to better understand how to support him. Al Anon is great. It made a difference to my life. But it is not a quick fix, it takes some work and time. It is not religious either, don't worry about that, although it does talk about spirituality in the sense of hope and you not being the sole thing responsible for everything and the world. It will help him face his future with her, as he will hear other men and women that made his choices and lived with them, until they got so desperate that they went to Al Anon for a way out of the pain and madness.

"She has been to AA but felt it wasn't for her."

"It took her 1 year to get the GP to refer her ... once she was referred for therapy it took 6 months to get an appointment, and she didn't feel that the person she saw was helping, so she found another one, this one is really good apparently but she's only had 2 sessions."

WhatTheCatDraggedIn, it really doesn't seem to me that she sees any need to deal with her alcohol problem. If she did, she'd not have waited 18 months but would have found her own therapist privately (you say she's in work, the money she spends on alcohol could have paid for the therapist).

"She has been to AA but felt it wasn't for her."

It shows you her commitment....

I know - we have probably been mugs. But she is the one with the problem, and we are all clueless. If she said that AA didn't help her how do we contradict that?

I don't know anything about this. AA is one way to get help - is it the only way?

WhereYouLeftIt - you are probably right. She is not awash with cash but if she was desperate to get help she would prioritise this above anything else.

I've been on a bit of a roller coaster on this thread, being furious with her, wanting the fix the problem and now thinking it can't be fixed.

It feels more and more like the wedding won't happen though.

AA not being for her, maybe that would be OK. I am an atheist and know others who don't go to AA for that reason. However, the man I am thinking about found a secular recovery service off his own bat and attended. He did this, and maintained his sobriety, while in a homeless shelter (he is housed now). That is commitment. The fact that AA is not for her and the first counsellor is not for her makes me more worried that recovery is not for her, at least at the moment. Unfortunately, one of the reasons she hasn't found her rock bottom may be all the the love and support you and your family offer. She has to want to change her behaviour. Sorry to say but maybe a drunk bride is what your DSS needs to change his behaviour. Try to think about it like this, you can change your behaviour, your DSS his and only she can change hers.