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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask what we should do WRT paying bereaved cleaner?

29 replies

AprilLilacs · 21/04/2012 18:48

'Cleaner' isn't quite the word but we live near to where DH grew up (couple of streets away), and employ the same woman who used to clean for MIL to come in once a week for 2 hours. She also goes to MIL once a week for 2 hours and we pay her £50 a week for both.

She's not a brilliant cleaner but she IS a brilliant person and DH is really fond of her and she adores the DCs and when I was very unwell a couple of years ago she did the school run for us for 3 weeks, which was amazing. Going to call her Jane.

18 months ago her daughter (only child, mid-30s), died tragically in an accident. Awful. We did what we could - flowers, cards, visits etc - but of course paltry in the face of this terrible loss. The DD's dog came to live with her and the DCs and I take it out for a walk on the weekends as Jane finds the (very elderly but strong and truculent), dog hard to handle. So we're very much in each other's lives still.

However and this is where it gets awkward. She hasn't come to clean since her daughter died. Not a big deal for us but MIL does need the help - I've been going round to MIL's and doing some picking up (which I did anyway), but MIL is saying she needs someone to come in 'properly' and that's fair enough.

We've been paying Jane the whole time - I only recently found that out when I took over our finances (all done from DH's account). I know she lost or gave up her other work when she lost her daughter.

I want to ask her to come in again, or to stop paying her if she feels she can't - what I'd really like to do is to say something like "how about we pay you on the day", and then if she comes in pay her then.

DH thinks this is awful terrible and hideous of me and that we should pay someone else to go in to MILs and keep paying Jane until she 'feels up to it'. He also says that she has gone above and beyond for us and we should do it for her now.

I sort of agree but surely that's what we've done for the past 18 months? We really don't have the cash to keep this up forever.

WWYD? Am I being hideously U?

OP posts:
hobnobsaremyfavourite · 21/04/2012 18:54

You cannot continue paying her indefinatey. How long does your husband want to continue doing this? A year? 10 years? Longer? She has clearly had a terrible time but you really need some clarity and a plan to resolve this matter.

madonnawhore · 21/04/2012 18:54

You sound lovely. And I don't think YABU. 18 months is long enough for this situation to have gone on, it does need addressing.

I think your suggestion of paying her on the day is a good one.

Fayrazzled · 21/04/2012 18:55

I don't think you're being U at all! You have been paying her for 18 months. 18 months! I can't think one of large corporate (with far more resources at its disposal) who would be willing to pay compassionate leave for a member of staff for so long. Does Jane realise you are still paying her?

Tryharder · 21/04/2012 18:55

YANBU. I think she is taking the piss now really. I know you say she is a nice person but I don't know of any employer who would give 18 months compassionate leave. Whether you sit down with her and discuss it or just stop the direct debit and don't say anything, I have no idea.

Tryharder · 21/04/2012 18:56

Xpost with Fayrazzled Grin

littlemisssarcastic · 21/04/2012 18:57

When was the last time you spoke to 'Jane'?

Has she indicated if/when she would like to return to work?

Original poster
AprilLilacs · 21/04/2012 18:59

I think DH would do this forever, honestly. He is very VERY fond of her (has known her since he was 13). He is worried about how she pays her rent etc.

This has all come to a head now MIL wants a new cleaner - DH is against paying someone else in addition to Jane but how does he think MIL's is going to get sorted? If he said "I want to give Jane money" that would be different (not saying I'd agree but it would be different), but he wants to maintain this sort of fiction that she is working for us/MIL still.

She's not taking the piss, honestly. I think perhaps for everyone (including me but much less so), the line between friend and employee/employer has just got totally distorted. She must know we're still paying her but having said that, she's been paid by MIL or DH every week for... 20 years? You can sort of 'forget' things you're so used to, maybe?

OP posts:
PurpleRomanesco · 21/04/2012 18:59

YANBU, You have been very generous so far. I'm sure she will understand.

You do sound lovely :)

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 21/04/2012 19:00

Your DH is being very unfair to his own mother.

Ghoulwithadragontattoo · 21/04/2012 19:00

I would call her and ask whether she wants the job otherwise you are going to find someone else. Obviously the payments need to stop now. Paying her for a few weeks just after her DD died is kindness. Paying for 18 months for no cleaning is madness.

madonnawhore · 21/04/2012 19:01

I didn't want to say it because I was worried I might seem mean, but I agree with Tryharder - she is taking the piss a little bit. I don't see how she can't have realised you've been paying her all this time. It's a bit Hmm that she hasn't said anything about it.

PurpleRomanesco · 21/04/2012 19:02

It may also be good for her, Start getting her life back into it's normal routine would be a healthy step for her. Ask your DH to look at it from that angle.

Original poster
AprilLilacs · 21/04/2012 19:02

I saw her yesterday. Will see her tomorrow too when we take the dog out.

She HAS done things for us, that's the thing - she has:

  • collected post for MIL from the PO
  • collected DC1 and 2 from school when DC3 was rushed to hospital few months back
  • bought a handbag from a charity shop for MIL (MIL saw it in the window, they said it would be on sale on a day when MIL wasn't around, Jane went round first thing so nobody else could buy it and got it for her).
  • looks after our spare keys when we're away.
  • etc.

So we should've paid her SOMETHING - but not £50 a week for this long, IMO.

OP posts:
LesAnimaux · 21/04/2012 19:06

I think it might do her some good, after 18 months, to do get out and do something regularly. Ask her very nicely to come back and do the cleaning.

Ghoulwithadragontattoo · 21/04/2012 19:07

You've paid her virtually £4000 for nothing. Emergency childcare from a family friend calls for a box of chocs not £4k.

MarshmallowFarm · 21/04/2012 19:09

Could you just mention to her that you're worried about MIL being on her own, and how you may have to find someone else "temporarily" to take over MIL's cleaning until she feels up to it? Then she may get the hint that the money will also be stopping as you are paying someone else?

Maybe she doesn't want to face up to the fact that she isn't going back to work - and this "fiction" keeps her in denial....

as was said upthread, it may actually be a blessing for her to prompt a change, as otherwise she is stuck in the grieving period indefinitely, and you and DH have kind of perpetuated this, albeit with enormous kindness and the very best intentions.....

Original poster
AprilLilacs · 21/04/2012 19:14

Yes, I think those who have said it might be 'good' for her to get back into the swing of things a bit might be right - I can put that forwards to DH. Ideally I'd like to bring it up tomorrow. It's hard though, she's very fragile emotionally.

I think saying MIL is lonely/needs some company might be a good starting point actually. Perhaps we could say we're going to do a big spring clean at ours and could she come and help?

OP posts:
AThingInYourLife · 21/04/2012 19:16

£200+ per month because your DH is fond of her?

Either you guys are seriously loaded or he is throwing family money away.

Just explain to her that your MIL's needs are increasing and you need someone to clean for her reliably. Offer her first refusal of the job.

If she doesn't take it, the payments stop.

ArtVandelay · 21/04/2012 19:18

Can I just say that I think you are very kind and decent.

CremeEggThief · 21/04/2012 19:21

No advice as such, but you sound lovely and very best of luck with telling her of your decision.

diddl · 21/04/2012 19:26

Well if you have been paying her for 4hrs a week for 18months then surely she has been more than compensated for the "above & beyond" that she did for you.

I´m amazed she is taking the money tbh.

I think you have to tell her that MIL needs a cleaner now & you can´t pay her & a cleaner so you are offering her the choice.

agreetodisagree · 21/04/2012 21:21

That is a hard one. My DH has written off a 4k loan to a bereaved family member before. You have effectively now given her 3600 quid and the bottom line is that the timescale is irrelevant - 18 months is a long time but as AD said recently: the reality of bereavement is that the loss of a loved one is with you all year round.

So the real question is: is DH wanting to pay her this money each month as upkeep/maintenance for the rest of her life? If so how does his own mum feel about that? Can you afford it? Do you resent it?

If he wants to continue doing that he needs to find another 200 quid for a new cleaner.

If he cannot afford 400 a month (I certainly couldn't - that's my interest-only mortgage) then he needs to stop the direct debit/standing order and explain you cannot afford two cleaners/helpers. You may well need that 2400 a year when kids go to college or when the government make even more changes.

sayithowitis · 21/04/2012 22:05

if this woman worked for any organisation she would probably have qualified for up to a weeks compassionate leave and the rest would have had to be on a certificate from the GP. In that case, if she was in a generous organisation (Local authority/civil service etc), she would have been entitled to sick pay for up to one year. then it would stop. In the private sector, it is entirely possible that pay would cease after six months. You and your husband have paid her for 18 months. Nobody can say you have not been generous or understanding of the difficult time she has had. But there is no reason at all for you to continue paying this. Your DH needs to tell her, nicely, that unless she comes back to 'work', the money has to stop in order that he can pay somebody else to do the job.

boringnickname · 21/04/2012 22:10

I think you should be very blunt with jane and tell her that you want her to start cleaning again, dont even give her the option to say no - she needs to start doing things now, of course you cannot continue to pay her for somethig she isnt doing. Also, it is fascilitating her just giving up on life. You say she has always been your cleaner, can you tell her how much you miss her? Let her choose her hours etc?? I think you have been amazingly patient but i actually don't think this is doing the poor woman any favours

boringnickname · 21/04/2012 22:11

oh and just to add that i too think you are a wonderfully kind and decent couple