Smoking, AIBU ?

[MissMap]

My Dn is about to move into a shared flat. It is only available to non-smokers, which he is. However, the person he is going to share with, is a smoker. He intends to lie to the Landlord and sign a contract stating he is also a non-smoker. He insists that he will only smoke outside and that this will be permissable.

I have insisted that my DN mentions this to the Landlord before they sign a contract. My DN thinks I am being u.

What's the verdict of the Mumsnet jury?

Ps Dn has lived with me since he was a small boy, but is now at Uni.

Don't think it counts if he smokes outside and gets rid of the mess properly. It's only inside the property that landlords are generally concerned about.

FlossY, the LL isn't concerned about that someone though, is he, only about the property.

Sure, Graham, and LL will be concerned about the smell transferring into their property. They just surely need to find somewhere without this clause. I once let a property and didn't check that this clause was in the contract. After 18 months of smoking tenants the place was ingrained with the stench. Carpets were cleaned a couple of times, walls washed and sprayed with diluted essential oils. Febreze, anything else I could think of. I ended up having to have new carpets and doing a complete redecoration.

It does take a lot of shifting - I bought a house from smokers and it took a year before smell totally went - and that was with top to toe clean!!!

sorry but i think you should keep your nose out of this one. if thet are old enough to sign their own tenancy they are not children and this one has nothing to do with

Even if it is the other boy smoking they will both be held jointly liable (assuming this is a joint tenancy?) for any damage incurred and your nephew will also have money deducted from his deposit unless his friend was nice and ensured no money was deducted from your nephew.
That's if this friend is one of those smokers who claims not to smoke but then continues to smoke inside with a window open, which does happen. If the cost incurred for repairing any damage (burnt carpets, discoloured walls etc.) is more than the deposit amount the landlord will also be entitled to claim even more money from them which they could be taken to court for. I saw that you're giving your nephew money for the deposit but missed whether or not you're his guarantor (in which case his liability becomes your's and landlord could very well demand more money from you).

I think you're being perfectly reasonable to be concerned tbh, it is your money at stake, though I'm not sure telling the landlord before they sign the contract will help with the above situation, your nephew will still be seen as equally liable for any damage incurred even if it was down to the smoker. Getting them to tell the landlord wouldn't help protect you financially, and really smoking or non-smoking properties the tenants will always be liable for any damage they cause. If you can't trust this other person to not smoke inside the house (some smokers do, some don't) then what you can do is to protect yourself by not being a guarantor and/or not giving your nephew the deposit money or else making him pay it back asap. And then just sit back and let them get on with things.

Yeah, but they're not old enough to pay for it themselves, so the OP has a right to know if she's likely to lose her deposit money!

Yes, but are you both talking of exclusively outside smokers Flossyfloof and GinPalace? Anyway, for me that bit is immaterial, my reason for saying that the OP is BU is based upon the fact that her DN is a grown man and that if she feels so strongly about this she should either loan/pay the money without proviso or she should withdraw the offer (imho). I'm uncomfortable with her "insisting" anything and treating the DN as if he were a little boy still and as if she still has control over his decisions and actions, particularly as she is indirectly affected another, totally unrelated grown man too.

If I had a contract that stipulated non smokers I would expect the tennants to be non smokers. It does not say 'no smoking in the house'. Smokers make things smell, whether they smoke outside or not. They would be out on their ears, the cost of removing the smell would come out of their 'joint' deposit. End of. I would say that either DN finds someone else to share with or they find another property where the landlord doesn't have it in the contract.

In that case what about guests/boysfriends/girlfriends who smoke? Are they not allowed in the property in case their jumper smells?

Guests and partners aren't going to be living in the house and therefore not around enough to cause the same sort of lasting damage that a resident smoker might. But I would also presume if smoking guests were around so much that their presence did actually cause smell/discolouration of the property then it would still be the tenants deposit that would be affected.

Precisely, SpuddyBean. And no, the response that guests aren't going to be there that often isn't good enough. The chances are that a girlfriend will spend a lot of time there, including overnight.

PS. Slightly different but one of my guests wearing the pointiest high heels imaginable has caused damage to the kitchen floor, which will be my liability when the tenancy ends. I've since made a mental note to make sure guests with high heels take off their shoes whilst in the house, I don't want it being damaged even further and to have to payout even more money.

Which leads onto my second point, if you bring guests into your house then you're liable for whatever damage they may cause and it's the risk you take or not.

Graham - no they were inside smokers. I wasn't making a point so much as idle chitchat on the surprisingly persistent nature of fag stench to be honest.

Personally I'm inclined to agree with you Graham with the knowledge that tho' he says it'll only be outside that might not be the case once he has his feet under the table as others have said. I have been that age!!!

Dizzy - if only all tennants were like you then life would be so much easier :)

Why start a tennancy with this hassle? There are plenty of places out there, why not just get one where the landlord hasn't stipulated non smokers?

I doubt kids this age will be that bothered about making the effort to only smoke outdoors, not in the longterm. Folk have said they don't know anyone who still smoked inside, are you fro real. See folk smoking in their cars with their kids in there, bet they only pop out to the garden for a smoke, what if you don't have a garden like many flats as well. If folk only smoked outside now there also wouldn't have been the hoo haar when pubs and such went smoke free.

Wait till next winter and see if he is still diligently smoking outside every time.