Smoking, AIBU ?

[MissMap]

My Dn is about to move into a shared flat. It is only available to non-smokers, which he is. However, the person he is going to share with, is a smoker. He intends to lie to the Landlord and sign a contract stating he is also a non-smoker. He insists that he will only smoke outside and that this will be permissable.

I have insisted that my DN mentions this to the Landlord before they sign a contract. My DN thinks I am being u.

What's the verdict of the Mumsnet jury?

Ps Dn has lived with me since he was a small boy, but is now at Uni.

I'm confused now

Is moonstonezoe the OP?

I am the Aunty.

I will pay the rent and deposit for my DN.

I suspect that the Landlord might terminate the tenancy if they are not honest about the smoking issue.

I have raised my DN with the precept "honesty is the best policy", and I believe that it generally is!

I just wondered what the general consensus was.

The Landlord can only terminate the contract if smoking takes place on his premises.

If it doesn't, there's nothing he can do about one of his tenants taking up a perfectly legal activity.

Moonstone are you also missmap?

What wording is he actually signing? Does it say they are both non-smokers or does it say they won't be smoking in the flat?

Yes they both have to sign to say they are non-smokers.

TT we are closely related! (she is older than me and not as good looking)

By 'non-smoker' in rental agreements I have taken that to mean, not smoking in the property (which is fair enough) what happens outside the property is none of the landlord's business and why would they care if one of their tenants smokes outside?

YABU. If DN lives there for 6 months and then takes up having a few cigs in the pub after work, he will have become a smoker. Would you expect him to have to move out?

Explain the risks of breaking the tenancy agreement, then leave it to him. Or put your foot down and say, 'my money, my rules'. Or get it in writing the the deposit is a loan and then it is his problem. But YABU expecting him to tell the landlord that his mate might smoke outside the property, landlords who write this mean do not smoke in the house.

What is the landlord going to use to determine any breach though? If it's evidence (or lack of) cigarette buts and lighters, etc. then fine. If he uses his nose - not so fine. Cigarette smoke clings to furnishings even if nobody has smoked inside - if they come in with it on their clothes, it clings to anything else fabric.

How much notice is needed for inspections?

What problems will it cause you?

Yes, depends how on the ball the landlord is.

My friend who smokes always goes outside to smoke and gives it a few minutes before she comes in again. It still makes the house stink - I don't mind too much as she doesn't visit often, tho' I hate the smell.

So keeping it outside doesn't necessarily work. DN obviously doesn't mind but the landlord might and if your money is at stake... I would be inclined not to but then of DN really wants to share with this particular person I might be swayed though probably not

As a landlord I think the property they rent is the house and any outside areas, so I would be well cross if they stood outsid the back door and smoked.

Why would you be 'well cross' if someone smoked outside? What impact does that have on you?

Ok I'm confused now

The DN has lived with MissMap since he was a small boy but moonstone has raised him and will be paying for the flat?

Is that right?

BIL is a smoker who told his LL he's a non smoker. He doesn't smoke anywhere near the flat so I don't see the problem tbh.

I would be as concerned as you are, OP, precisely because we don't know how strict the lL is going to be about this issue.

That's why I would advocate honesty. We got our agreement changed to include pets, through discussion with the agents and LL. They might be ok with smoking outside, you have to ask though as if they're not, you could lose your money/tenancy.

It's as simple as that really. You just don't know who you're getting into an agreement with so don't take the risk.

Though I would say it's a fairly low risk if the kid only smokes at the pub/well away from the building.

Had we sneaked in a cat or two I doubt they would have looked very favourably on it...but as we were honest form the start they were great.

The garden, front and back, porch, drive, garage - they are all part of the property and the landlord therefore has a right to insist that no smoking takes place there. Even when smokers have a fag outside they still smell of smoke, it is on their skin, their clothes their hair - and will transfer onto furnishings.

This is all hinging on a prospective flatmate keeping a promise about smoking outside. Depending on someone else to only break an agreement a leetle bit, is not a secure financial/legal position.

Let's just say I've known flatmates to say all kinds of things to the landlord, and to each other!

Tsmell of a cigarette smoked outside will transfer from skin and clothes to furnishings, which may be the tenants anyway, so badly as to affect them? Are you sure, Flossyfloof?

Um, leaving aside the issue that the other guy only smokes outside, he's a grown man FGS! You've "insisted", have you? he may be your DN but he's no longer your little boy and his flatmate

Sorry, posted too soon.

His flatmate is absolutely nothing to do with you and it really isn't your place to poke your nose in get involved.

Graham did you spot the bit where she is paying the bills and the deposit is her money to be lost?

Note to OP: never underestimate the power of a nosey neighbour

What if neighbours contact LL and fan the flames, so to speak, saying tenants are smoking all over the place?

I predict a lost deposit or two

If he tells the landlord, chances are he'll lose a friend, so YABU to insist he tells.

OTOH YANBU as my DSis shared with two friends who swore up down and sideways they would smoke outside. Over the course of a year that migrated to 'only smoking out of windows' to 'smoking inside with windows open' to, eventually, smoking inside the flat with windows shut. When they moved out there were two days of absolute panic as they tried to get rid of the smell. Luckily DSis was on a separate contract and her deposit wasn't affected. Don't know the outcome for their deposits, but I suspect it wasn't good as the LL hated smoke.

I am not 100% sure, Graham but why should I as a landlord accept the possibility? Furnishing may belong to the tenants but carpets are unlikely to be theirs. My property, my rules.
Have you ever smelled someone who "only smokes outside"?

Yes I did, GinPalace. Sorry.

It doesn't change my opinion though. Smoking outside is completely different to smoking inside - what, as someone else asked up there happens to the tenancy if a visitor^ smokes outside? The effect upon the property is going to be the same.

Besides that the sharer and what they do has SFA to do with the OP and AFAIAC the DN is now a grown-up and doesn't need Aunty insisting upon anything! If Aunty is concerned about her deposit etc then fine, withdraw the offer, but don't make it on the priviso that she can insist upon what her adult nephew and his unrelated friend do.