To not give a fuck about schools?

[sensuallettuce]

AIBU to be totally hacked off with this subject every bloody year.

I don't care that Saffron didn't get into your first choice school even though the local school is varie good she just isn't "suited" to that "environment" all the council estate kids .

It's such thinly veiled snobbery and competitive parenting at its very worst. Kids should go to the local school end of and if there is a grammar system state educated kids should be permitted to take the entrance exam (not privately educated kids who are trained to pass an exam) and this should be means tested.

I live in one of the most competitive school areas of the country with a massive social divide (Poole in Dorset). Because of this I ended up with all 3 kids at 3 different schools for 3 yrs .

How can people bang on about the state providing a perfectly good education then spend an extra £50,000 on a house in the "right" area. It's hypocritical snobby bollocks.

Kids will learn if they want to. I do not believe any of them have faired any better or worse due to my non choice of school. They are fulfilling who they are.

They have a loving home and are well balanced grounded kids and they know if I believe they have been "wronged" I am behind them 100%, if they have done "wrong" I am behind the school. I a, supportive of and interested in their education.

We all need to bloody calm down about this seriously

I know someone who works in a pupil referal unit. All the kids there have been excluded from the local schools for one reason or another and from the stories he tells there is no way you would want your child in mainsteam school with even the best behaved of them.
The pru seems to have unlimed money to spend. The pupils do many things mine could only dream of doing. Outward bound courses, sailing ect and all for free. But even with all the extra funding and the small headway the unit might make with a child nothing changes for that child as at the end of the school day they return to the enviroment that shaped them in the first place.

It is a never ending circle and over the years my friend is now seeing the children of some of his earlier pupils arrive on is register.

*amarone]

Have a

Outraged, segregation takes many forms, segregation by ability being one of them. There is absolutely no need for children to be educated in separate schools - all childrens needs can be met in one school. Even the boy/girl issue can be addressed within the same school. Different ability levels are much more easily catered for nowaday - there is no reason for children to be educated in different schools - none whatsoever.

Apart from a tiny minority with severe autism and hyper-sensory issues and even those can be taught in school with the right facilities. But as long as we have one school creaming off the 'easy' kids and another school dealing with the needs of all the rest with little compensation for their efforts, there will be segregation and it will get worse with each generation.

cantspel it sounds like your friend's PRU isn't doing a very good job then. Perhaps they should do a little less sailing and a little more learning.

jif what about sen schools?

My oldest is in a sen school. He doesn't have autism, hyper-sensory issues or any sort of behavioural problems but mainsteam is not the place for him. And yes we did try it in a school that i couldn't fault for all the efforts they made and the support they gave. One size does not fit all.

jif it is very hard to teach a child who will just get up and walk out and you are lucky if they dont hurle their chair at you on the way out.

I disagree that all children can be educated in the same school. Not all children fit the same mould.

All children don't go into the same type of further education, all children don't do the same extra curricular activities, all children don't end up doing the same type of job. So why do you think they can all be educated in a way that suits all children in exactly the same way?

Hmm says you from the position where you have the luxury of choice - many don't.

Why do you think it's okay for some kids (not yours of course) to go to the "bad" schools?

School in general is a "one size fits all" scenario and some kids just aren't suited to the institution.

Where did I sayi think it's ok for children to go to bad schools?

I don't think it's ok, I just don't think that you can expect parents not to do everything that can to keep their own children out if bad schools. That's not the same thing.

I am sure all children could be educated in the same school. But it would come very, very expensive if every Victorian school building had to become accessible overnight to all kinds of disabilities that do not qualify for special school, and if all schools had to offer specialist counselling for every serious need. Plenty of schools around here that could only meet their legal obligations to my dd if they were to be razed to the ground and built up overnight by friendly genie; ordinary builders take far too long- quite apart from the supposed lack of money in the council coffers.

As for "children will learn if they want to", what my dd chiefly learnt from her first, non-adapted school is that it is less painful and less humiliating to slice your wrists at the start of the day than to spend the day in an environment that cannot meet your needs.

I am not in favour of overall segregation, but I do think we have to be realistic about individual children.

YABU, and if our buying a house, which was £75,000 more, due to the school teaching wanted our child to attend makes us a snob, they I honestly couldn't give too hoots about your opinion.

Yes children will learn if they want too, but they will also learn by being in a better environment, a strict setting, and also with teachers who encourage them at every opportunity, not go to any of their sister schools who are now either in special measures, or currently have a whole teaching overhaul,or kids who have had 4 teacher since Sept, or even none at all, I know which one Id choose!!!

When it comes to secondary school, most children are educated in the same way anyhow. Comprehensive secondary schools are massive, and do aim to cater for all children. And most of the time, that's fine.

Sensual, if you thought that was the best For your ds, why are you using a grammar school? Could it be that you wanted your ds to be given the best education you could get for him, in an environment that suits him best?

Ds class has a child with autism, a child in a wheelchair, a child who is partially sighted and a child who has down syndrome, all of who are excelling, and that's because of the teaching and support staff. so in no way shape or form in the school we choose for out ds, was because it wasn't a sink estate or council estate, however considering its a ex-council estate (about 60% of the houses are now owned), it really does take your silly opinion out of context.

Its not fair that some people don't have a choice and some kids have to go to bad schools - there should be no such thing as a bad school but unfortunately there is and I think (if you can obviously some people can't) as a parent you should be doing everything possible to get your child the best education possible. Not every school is the same, not all teachers are the same and not all children are the same so to suggest there is a one size fits all solution is at best naive.

My dh went to 'bad' school,hated every second, left at 16 and is now very successful - no thanks to his school and while he sometimes laughs at the Harry potteresque elements of my school he has said he wonders what would have happened had he had the same opportunities I had and because of this also wants dd to go to the same school I did. I loved my school got good grades and went to Uni. (not saying people who go to Uni are better but we do have more opportunities). Yes we moved back into this area because of the school (and the area) and I have friends who are going to do the same when they have children for the same reason. We are not snobs but want the best for our children - not saying you don't but we all have different opinions on what is best for our kids. Now my dd might hate school like her dad but would rather she hated one that gave a damn. And maybe if for a few generations we all just went you just go to the local school regardless of reputation things might eventually improve but are you really willing to play Russia roulette with your child's future in that way?

YANBU!!! And I think I love you a little bit OP!

OP you may well have said this upthread, but was the grammar your nearest school? And why did your other two DC go to two different schools?

You are kind of not being unreasonable but the problem is that some schools are so awful they are not providing a good education for our children so people do feel the need to go elsewhere. I am not a snob but why would I want ot send my kids to a crap school if there is a choice of a better one nearby.

Nowadays it is vital children achieve good GCSE grades as it is so hard to get a job so that is why people worry so much. Also statistics show that only around 40% of children who do not achieve a level 4 at KS2 go on to gain 5 GCSEs.

We live in a really nice area, we have some good and outstanding infant schools, 1 good junior schools, all others are satisfactory or failing and no good secondary schools, all failing or barely satisfactory with pretty grim reports and approx 30% 5 A-C grade at GCSE level (not deprived areas really either). We don't have a grammar school but 3 or 4 excellent independant schools if people can afford it of course.

Why should my children suffer these schools, yes they may achieve if they want to, DS1 is well above average so should be ok but DS2 is average or very slightly above so he would probably not make the 30%.

You are wrong OP, on many levels.

Where I live there are nice areas and shit areas. The nice children (most likely to have involved parents who give a shit) live in the nice areas and go to the nice schools. The other, poorer, children whose parents are less likely to attend parents evening, less likely to integrate generally and less likely to give a shit about education go to the shit schools in the shit areas. The shame is that some nice parents have to live in shit areas because they can't afford to live elsewhere.

And I would rather homeschool than allow my children to mix with some of the children that go to the shit schools.

I come from a relatively nice town, low crime rate, etc and guess what I didn't need to mix with rough kids to get to adulthood.

That's unusual posie, I went to a very posh private school and there were plenty of rough kids there.

@posie There is more to being nice than merely not being rough.

I'm guessing that not all of the parents who send their DCs to the 'nice' schools and live in the 'nice areas' where you you live do in fact meet my definition of nice.

Also, being deemed 'rough' by the 'nice people' and actually being rough (i.e. being violent, rude, generally a scary person)? Two completely different things. You'd possibly be surpassed at the venn diagram of the two groups - less overlap than you might think.

I agree with the OP too. I lived in Kent for a few years and I felt really uncomfortable about the coaching of very children to pass the 11+ and then the expectations of failure at 10yo if they didn't pass it. Imo, it's not creaming off the most academically bright children, it's social engineering

I also agree that people need to be more self aware as to what they are saying too. Ordinary people aren't generally scarey, they are just ordinary!